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#1
09-26-2020, 10:09 AM
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Active vs Passive for solo set up
Hello everyone. I've been getting a lot of outdoor gigs recently. I have a pair of Fishman SA330x amps and they have been great for indoors and small to medium outdoor shows. Lately I'm finding with social distancing and large outdoor areas, I'm needing to push them too hard. So much that they rattle. I fully realize, They are just not designed to fill a large open outdoor area.
I used to have a Yamaha powered mixer (EMX212) with 3 BR12s two for FOH and one monitor. I gigged that system for 7 years without a single problem. However after moving to 99% indoor gigs for the past 6 years and wanting to simplify the whole operation, I sold the Yamaha system with the thought that I'd only do large outdoor gigs where sound is provided. That brings us to now and how different things have been this year for everyone, and I'm realizing it would be nice to have more power for outdoor gigs. The outdoor season will be wrapping here in the Pittsburgh area very soon, however I'm thinking of next years outdoor season. My question. Based on your experiences, what are your preferences between a powered mixer/passive speaker set up (like the Yamaha I had) and an active setup like the QSC .2 series and why? Seems to me there would be less need for power outlets with the type of system I used to use. Although at least one advantage for active speakers would be the amp is built in so in smaller settings I could go straight into one QSC K.2 series speaker with guitar and vocals. I want power for outdoors while keeping the set up as SIMPLE as possible. I'm all about simplicity when it comes to my set up. I'd really appreciate some feedback and opinions. Thanks Last edited by JPH; 09-26-2020 at 10:50 AM. 
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#2
09-26-2020, 11:27 AM
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Active vs Passive for solo set up
I like the powered speaker option if I’m honest. If - like us - you use two and one dies (it hasn’t yet) then you still have one left. If a powered mixer dies on you that’s it, you’ve lost your mixer AND your power amp...
The disadvantage of powered speakers is that you have to run power and signal cables to each speaker. That said, you’re better off running long signal cables than long speaker cables - this is why professional PA setups where the amp isn’t in the speaker cab often keep the amp racks relatively close to the speaker columns whenever possible. I used to use a separate power amp but in all honesty, these days the amps built in to speakers are pretty darn good. The current Yamaha models are excellent and JBL aren’t bad either!
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Gibson ES-335 Studio 2016; Furch OM34sr 2015; Fender MiJ Geddy Lee Jazz bass, 2009; Taylor 414CE 2005; Guild D35 NT 1976; Fender MIM Classic 60s Tele 2008; Fender US Standard Strat 1992; G&L ASAT classic hollowbody 2005; Ibanez RG350MDX 2010(?); Ibanez Musician fretless, 1980s; Seymour Duncan Tube 84-40; Vox AC4TV; Ex-pat Brit in Sweden
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#4
09-26-2020, 11:49 PM
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JPH;
I don't know exactly "how large" your outdoor gigs are... but in my 50+ years of performing (mostly solo guitar and voice), I have NEVER used a system that is as manageable, workable and just plain excellent sounding as my Bose L1 Model II. I use just one of the smaller B1 subwoofer cabinets as it serves me just fine, but there is a larger B2 subwoofer that can put out a LOT more bass, if you need it. The L1 Model II breaks down into 4 pieces (including the sub), and not one of them weighs more than 24# (the base unit), with the speaker columns weighing at ~12#'s each. I'm an old guy with a "musician's back" and having something lighter weight is huge for me... On stage, I use the little Bose T1 mixer. I have it on a small tray on my micstand, so it's right under my fingertips when I want/need... ONE cable goes from the mixer to the base unit - and sends signal and receives AC from/to the base unit. The sub is powered off the base unit, along with the speakers. Incredibly clean, sanitary stage set-up! I have 6' cables for my mic and guitars, and that's it. Using the L1 as designed and placed ~8-12 feet away from me, diagonally over my left shoulder, I HEAR MYSELF PERFECTLY!!! What's more? I'm hearing the same volume on stage that the folks who are 50' away are hearing... ZERO hot spots, ZERO dead zones. honest-to-God over 180 degree dispersion, all at the same volume level/eq... Absolutely the most well-mannered system I've used regarding feedback issues; I just don't any at all with my vocal mic (which I'll leave "on" while on break and have NEVER had it feedback!), and VERY minimally with acoustic guitar amplification... I used this rig for about 6 years now, and had an older version for 3 years prior to that... never had an issue with them (but I treat my gear well) at all... I was never a Bose "Fan Boy" before I owned and used this rig... but, for solo live performing? It doesn't get any better... A good friend (with incredible ears) remarked, upon playing through one for the first time : "It sound like I'm in a studio with a great set of headphones on, listening to myself play..." I know they are pricey, but in my experience, they are simply the best thing going. Don't confuse the L1 Compact with the L1 Model II... nearly apples and oranges. The Compact is good and solid, but for much smaller venues... "they" say the L1 Model II will cut a gig for 500 people, and I believe it. I've only used mine for a hundred or so, but with great success. The little mixer is freakin' incredible as well... does SO much... no wireless nonsense (that stuff ALWAYS breaks down!), just great reliable performance. If the thing is good enough for Pat Metheny to tour with his trio (each member having their own L1 Modell II), it's good enough for me! Audition one thoroughly, if you have not already done so. I will say that a lot folks who are used to the "point and shoot" method of sound reinforcement have a tough time wrapping their brains around the way this rig functions... because YOU hear the same volume on stage that your audience is hearing, there's no need to "jack up the volume"... play too loudly in any venue with any system and you're asking for trouble... Sorry... long reply, but I guess you can see that I love that system! For what it's worth, I actually know Bob Quilter from way back when in Southern California, and I like the powered speakers he's got nowadays... but they are fraught with all the perils of "traditional" pa's... there are hot spots and dead zones, and frequently a little extra "noise" from running all that signal and AC cable all over the place... if you want simple, they are NOT your thing! And I've not heard them sound anywhere as pure as that Bose rig...
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"Home is where I hang my hat, but home is so much more than that. Home is where the ones and the things I hold dear are near... And I always find my way back home." "Home" (working title) J.S, Sherman
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#6
10-01-2020, 04:07 AM
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I'll just add the I used a Yamaha 512 emx for years and used the mixer for powered speakers and passive. The easiest solution is to add an unpowered mixer and a couple of powered 15 inch speakers. On the cheap, Behringer and Alto, and Mackie make great powered 15's.
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#7
10-04-2020, 06:29 AM
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Although I find the bose a little harsh
when pushed they are a good system for most applications. For larger outdoor areas You cant go wrong with qsc k series speakers. The k12.2 probably best of all For acoustic. Add a sub and you could drop That down to a k8 and still sound Good. I recently bought a schertler Sub and love it. If your talking Like 500 people spread across An acre than your in a whole different Rhealm of sound reinforcement. But for us weekend warriors the qsc stuff Is superb.
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#8
10-04-2020, 11:49 AM
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Why not just use the SA330x that you know well as the front end and run its aux line
out to a powered speaker? Use the SA330x as your EQ and monitor and put the powered speaker up on a stand. Should be an easy job for guitar and voice. No sub-woof needed. You could even sell one of the SA330x units and possibly net enough to buy a pair of decent powered speakers (and stands), like Yamaha DBX or Alto TS units. A pair of QSC CP8's would sound good for guitar and voice and be pretty small and easy to move around. The powered speaks would give you lots of options to spread the sound around, too. If you need more than 2 inputs you can add the Fishman SA Expand thing to add 4 more channels to the SA330x if needed. You might not need the 2nd unit any more. Then again, if money is no object and you want something other than the SA330x there's tons of options. :-) Last edited by RogerPease; 10-04-2020 at 11:52 AM. Reason: typo
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#9
05-06-2021, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Solid points, I actually forgot that I'd posted this. Sorry for the delayed reply. Haven't been online in a while. Thank you very much! I'm going to keep using the SA330x pair for outdoor shows and see how that goes. If need be, I'll replace one of the Fishman 330s with a QSC powered speaker.
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#11
05-08-2021, 06:38 AM
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You might consider a JBL EON612 or a 610.
I bought a pair of 612's, because my little Bose L1Compact couldn't compete on a long narrow patio gig located beside a river with lots of wind. The JBL's sound great there with Bose T1 mixer I use, and IMO are a very good value. I even did a gig with the L1C and one EON 612, which worked quite well too. I'll still keep the L1C for smaller rooms.
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#12
05-14-2021, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
I looked on Sweetwater for the L1 Model II. It doesn't seem to be there. I may have missed it, I was half asleep while browsing. I haven't checked other sites either. Seems like there is a push for the new pro series L1. I'm just not sure about buying another Bose. I bought and gigged 24 shows over a month with the L1C and returned it to buy the 330x. Last year I bought the S1 Pro and returned it as well. Both have their good points, but the lack of a master volume on either of them always really annoyed me. I don't want to carry around a mixer as a solo guitarist/vocalist. It defeats the purpose of "all in one". That was the turnoff for me regarding the L1C. As far as the S1, I've never found myself needing battery power in 14 years of gigging so I decided for any S1 appropriate application (minus lack of a place to plug in), my Fishman 330x would handle it easily. I realize nothing can touch Bose for dispersion. And to be fair, I've never tried the L1 Model II so I will take your word for it based on your reply to me. I did an outdoor gig yesterday and only took one of my 330s. I thought I'd be indoors which is why I didn't take both 330s. I found out on the way there that the performance was happening outside. It was a wide open field with no nearby buildings to capture and contain the sound. I had to push the amp pretty hard which caused some slight distortion to my ears. I could've used more volume/projection but I was at the threshold of volume due to the placement and needing to use the amp as my monitor and the main for the audience. Any further and I would have had feedback. Now that "outdoor gigging" season is returning in the Pittsburgh area, I'm really leaning towards the suggestion RogerPease gave and using the 330 as the monitor behind me and going from that into a k8.2 to give me what I need when I'm outside. I will also take a look at the L1 Model II if I can find one and perhaps the EV 50.
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#13
05-14-2021, 08:26 AM
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I used the Bose L1 ii for a couple years and was quite happy with it. On one gig, I used it in large space of three combined ballrooms and it was fine.
I sold it though and now use a Schertler Roy on a short stand for large rooms. The sound is remarkably similar. The MTM design coverage is surprisingly good and blankets the room in in a horizontal plane of sound. It has easily handled every space I've used it in, and like the Bose, the sound is stellar, even in the bass. What I like about it is that it is just one piece...one large and heavy piece...but I have a little folding hand cart from Harbor Freight that handles it easily.
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#14
05-15-2021, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
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#15
05-15-2021, 07:35 AM
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After some consideration. I'm pretty certain I've decided to go with adding a k8.2 to my 330x for outdoor shows. I'll start there and see how it goes.
I seriously considered the EV evolve 30 and 50. However, I've never used a sub for my solo acoustic gigs aside from the brief time I had the L1C. I've never felt the need. I will say, I have no doubt using a sub would fill out the sound when playing outdoors. I do notice the sound seems thinner outside in big spaces with the 330. I'm thinking and hoping that adding the k8.2 for outdoor gigs will fill things out enough while adding some extra coverage too. Thanks to everyone for all the replies. I'll be purchasing soon and I'll post my thoughts on a new thread. I've read a lot of good things about the K series on this forum.
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