Lap vs pedal steel?

[stokes1971]

I had an accident in 2013 that mangled my left hand/arm.After 3 surgeries I have spent the last 9 years re-learning guitar.It isnt working out so well so I decided to try lap or pedal steel.I have played slide on electric for years so I figured I had a head start.My son has a 10 string pedal he loaned me.At my age there isnt enough time to become proficient with the pedal steel so I went with a lap steel.Been at it about a year using a C6th tuning.One of the biggest obstacles I have found is getting the standard tuning topography out of my head while I'm playing.Pedal steels are a lot of $$$$ so I would suggest starting with a lap steel, you can get a decent lap for under 500 bucks.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by stokes1971

I had an accident in 2013 that mangled my left hand/arm.After 3 surgeries I have spent the last 9 years re-learning guitar.It isnt working out so well so I decided to try lap or pedal steel.I have played slide on electric for years so I figured I had a head start.My son has a 10 string pedal he loaned me.At my age there isnt enough time to become proficient with the pedal steel so I went with a lap steel.Been at it about a year using a C6th tuning.One of the biggest obstacles I have found is getting the standard tuning topography out of my head while I'm playing.Pedal steels are a lot of $$$$ so I would suggest starting with a lap steel, you can get a decent lap for under 500 bucks.

Yes, laps can be reasonably priced. All of my customs sold for less than $500.

[Brent Hahn]

Deusenberg makes a lap steel with up to five pedal-like hand operated levers. In practice the learning curve might not be much different from a pedal steel. But it sure is a lot easier to lug around and set up.

[frankmcr]

Originally Posted by stokes1971

so I went with a lap steel.Been at it about a year using a C6th tuning.One of the biggest obstacles I have found is getting the standard tuning topography out of my head while I'm playing.

If you've already put in a year in CEGACE then I guess you should stick with it.

However, many outstanding lap steel players use tunings that may be more familiar for a guitar player crossing over - DGDGBD, GBDGBD/AC#EAC#E, DADF#AD, et cetera.

[Dave Hicks]

Originally Posted by stokes1971

...Been at it about a year using a C6th tuning.One of the biggest obstacles I have found is getting the standard tuning topography out of my head while I'm playing...

I tried C6 a while back and gave it up, but I decided to force myself to learn the tuning better, I'd take some lessons. I start Monday

What I've been doing to get ready is to write out tab for some fairly simple, familiar melodies that sound good s l o w . I also made a fretboard chart of where all the notes are. Hope it works!

D.H.

[Chickee]

I had the pleasure of commissioning a custom made pedal steel from Mr. Fred Justice(now retired)in Arizona. I tried for six years to become even a little bit competent on that gorgeous steel, but it wasn’t meant to be. My son, pictured below, being well versed in music theory, got it in no time. Every pedal and/or lever he activated, singularly or combined, he knew exactly what was happening on the fret board. I gave him my steel three years ago and he has since become quite an in demand pedal steel player in the St. Louie music scene.
I can attest there is nothing in common with a lap steel and a pedal steel guitar. Not even the “steels” used to play them.

[Pine Cone]

You might want to look into using a set of David Certano’s G & B Benders for a lap steel guitar. https://certano.fr/shop-palm-bender/

Troy Brenningmeyer’s Youtube videos inspired me, with a little help from a MF sale on the RK lap steel last month. https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_con...ture=emb_title

I am still in middle of my conversion of an inexpensive Recording King Humbucker Lap Steel. I am going to replace the RK chromed angle-iron bridge with Certano’s RRB1 roller bridge but first I need to fabricate an brass or aluminum spacer to raise the Certano bridge to clear the RK humbucker. Then I will install the new bridge and benders, probably later this week.

Acoustic or electric lap steels are a lot of fun!

[Runepune]

Originally Posted by Pine Cone

I am going to replace the RK chromed angle-iron bridge with Certano’s RRB1 roller bridge but first I need to fabricate an brass or aluminum spacer to raise the Certano bridge to clear the RK humbucker. Then I will install the new bridge and benders, probably later this week.

I just got the Certano benders, and waiting on delivery of the same RK lap steel....The humbucker can't be lowered enough? According to Mr Certano the RK was a good candidate for installing his benders/bridge, so I figured that wouldn't be a problem

[neilca]

This thread inspired me to buy one of the Rogue lap steels. I want to tune it in open Dobro G. I have been doing a lot of searches but cannot find a baseline to start. The rogue comes with 34w, 30w, 25w, 23w, 18, 15. The 30w and 23w feel a bit floppy when tuned to the open G.

Anybody have an opinion on strings?

[Pine Cone]

The Certano RRB1 roller bridge is shorter than the original bridge by 3/32” to 1/8”. The gap between the strings and the top of the pickup with the original bridge is a little over 1/8”

My concern was that the guitar tone and volume balance between strings would change for the worse if gap between the changed by very much.

The easy solution was to raise up the new bridge by about 1/16 of an inch (1.6 mm)

Today I bought a piece of 1 inch wide by 1/16 inch thick aluminum bar stock at my local hardware store to make a spacer to place under the new bridge.

The RRB1 bridge is 25 mm wide, and an inch is 25.4 mm so all I had to do was to cut the bar stock a little longer than the RRB1 bridge and then file and sand the spacer to fit under the bridge and then drill 3 mounting holes in the spacer to match the 3 mounting holes in the bridge.

Here are some pictures of the project... End result, Certano Bender’s installed, they work and sound great!

[Pine Cone]

Originally Posted by neilca

This thread inspired me to buy one of the Rogue lap steels. I want to tune it in open Dobro G. I have been doing a lot of searches but cannot find a baseline to start. The rogue comes with 34w, 30w, 25w, 23w, 18, 15. The 30w and 23w feel a bit floppy when tuned to the open G.

Anybody have an opinion on strings?

Try Morrell JMLS-G Lap Steel strings

.016” .018” .026” .040” .050” .058”

https://www.morrellmusic.com/collect...g-tuning-16-50

[Runepune]

Originally Posted by Pine Cone

The Certano RRB1 roller bridge is shorter than the original bridge by 3/32” to 1/8”. The gap between the strings and the top of the pickup with the original bridge is a little over 1/8”

My concern was that the guitar tone and volume balance between strings would change for the worse if gap between the changed by very much.

But would it be possible to just lower the humbucker enough with the screws? I'd like to avoid raising the bridge, as I don't have much in the tool department

[Pine Cone]

Originally Posted by Runepune

But would it be possible to just lower the humbucker enough with the screws? I'd like to avoid raising the bridge, as I don't have much in the tool department

My humbucker screws are about as low as they can go.

You could always just use the stock Recording King bridge, no spacer required.



Tools you need for the basic install

A drill and 3/32” drill bit. Phillips screwdriver, Masking tape, ruler, pencil.




Additional tools to make the bridge spacer...

1” by 1/16” by 48” aluminum bar stock. $8

3/16” bit for spacer install. $2

Hacksaw $6
https://www.amazon.com/VANQUISH-4851...s%2C312&sr=8-6


Crescent Nicholson single/double flat file $8
https://www.amazon.com/Nicholson-Han...s%2C269&sr=8-7

Sandpaper
220 grit and 500 grit $1 to $2 cost

Additional cost of tools. About $18
Aluminum for spacer $8 (buy 48”, use about 3”)

Total additional cost, $26, less than 10% of the cost of the Certano Bender and Certano RRB1 bridge.


Alternative expenditures

Luthier install of bridge and benders ... maybe $200 to $300


Just buy a pedal steel guitar ... + $2000 to $4000

[neilca]

Originally Posted by Pine Cone

Try Morrell JMLS-G Lap Steel strings

.016” .018” .026” .040” .050” .058”

https://www.morrellmusic.com/collect...g-tuning-16-50

Thanks, I will give them a try.

[Runepune]

Originally Posted by Pine Cone

My humbucker screws are about as low as they can go.

You could always just use the stock Recording King bridge, no spacer required.



Tools you need for the basic install

A drill and 3/32” drill bit. Phillips screwdriver, Masking tape, ruler, pencil.




Additional tools to make the bridge spacer...

1” by 1/16” by 48” aluminum bar stock. $8

3/16” bit for spacer install. $2

Hacksaw $6
https://www.amazon.com/VANQUISH-4851...s%2C312&sr=8-6


Crescent Nicholson single/double flat file $8
https://www.amazon.com/Nicholson-Han...s%2C269&sr=8-7

Sandpaper
220 grit and 500 grit $1 to $2 cost

Additional cost of tools. About $18
Aluminum for spacer $8 (buy 48”, use about 3”)

Total additional cost, $26, less than 10% of the cost of the Certano Bender and Certano RRB1 bridge.


Alternative expenditures

Luthier install of bridge and benders ... maybe $200 to $300


Just buy a pedal steel guitar ... + $2000 to $4000

Thanks The lap steel is backordered 6-8 weeks though...so I have some time to think things over