Pau Santo (Zollernia paraensis) as back and sides

[Jamiejoon]

Have any of you fine builders worked with Pau Santo (Zollernia paraensis), or played a guitar using it?

Pau Santo is a very hard wood from Brazil, in the Fabaceae family (like rosewood and many other fine guitar woods). It is often called Brazilian blackheart. Reasonably tight grain, greenish color.

I obtained a set from someone in Europe who said it has very fine properties as a wood for back and sides, somewhere between ebony and rosewood. My source told me it has been used a lot by Argentinian and Brazilian luthiers. I cannot find any information on it as a guitar wood, however. I don't speak Portuguese, and have no experience with South American luthiers (other than the terrific Leo Buendia, who has not used Pau Santo).

The set I have sounds "dead", but my source says that this is because of the thickness of the set and the hardness of the wood. He says when it is sanded down to the right thickness it rings like a bell. I have no reason to disbelieve him, but have not been able to find a luthier who can verify it.

If any of you have used or played with Pau Santo, I would be very appreciative for your insights. Thanks, Jamie

[Tim McKnight]

I've built with Pau Rosa, from Brazil. Its a true dalbergia though and it's salmon colored, closed pored hardwood with bell like tap tone. Probably not the same material as yours.

[clinchriver]

It makes a great "black" purfling line for binding. Never seen any near large enough for backs and sides, its really heavy.

[Jamiejoon]

Could it be that no luthiers in the Forum have worked with Pau Santo for back and sides? I guess I will have to find one who is willing to take the leap. If my source is correct, the set will make a very nice OO.

[John Osthoff]

I picked up a number of boards years ago that were called Brazilian Ebony. I suspect these are Pau Santo. The boards are/were big enough for sides, but not wide enough for a 2-piece back. I bought it for binding. I never really evaluated it as a tonewood or considered it for a back/side set, although that is intriguing. From what I remember it bent OK, easier than a "true" ebony.

[Universe]

It was used on my guitar made by Don Musser for the bridge & the pick guard. Weight & small trees would make it hard to make a back...maybe a 4 piece? I love interesting hard woods & imagine the use of it as a bridge would add a nuance to the guitar that was different than ebony or rosewood.

Supposed to smell good. Not sure why but my 2015 Musser still smells so good when I take it out of the case. A sweet vanilla spicy sandalwood scent. Great!

Pau Santo (Zollernia Paraensis) Brazilian Blackheart
This is a very dark, heavy and hard wood, may have grays or greens in it, and has been used in some applications to replace Ebony or Lignum Vitae. The sapwood is distinctly yellowish. It exhibits a natural luster but interlocking grain may make it difficult to work with. An abundance of natural oils increased difficulty with glueing and finishing. Sound-wise, expect it to fall between rosewood and ebony.

Trees rarely grow large enough to use for backs, so for this reason if no other it is very uncommonly used as tonewood. It is one of the woods used for violin bows, however. It's incense is also used in certain religious and medicinal (cancer fighting) ceremonies (this last may be Palo Santos instead - my ability to read Portuguese is about as minimal as it can be). Confusing the issue, I found this in Webster's: "a Brazilian tree (Kielmeyera coriacea) of the family Guttiferae having bark that is similar to cork and used for insulation".

[Jamiejoon]

Outcome of all this (six years ago) was that John Kinnaird built me a fantastic 000 with my set of Pau Santo and a beautiful set of WRC that he had. The guitar is sitting next to me right now, and is among my 2-3 favorites (out of roughly 15). It may be prone to cracking. I had to have a little crack in one side repaired, even with care for temperature and humidity. Given the small size of the tree and the larger size of the guitar (000), it is not quartersawn, but it is in my view gorgeous nonetheless. It was very worth the experiment. It is the only Pau Santo 000 I know of, and may be the only one in the US (in this size or larger) as I haven't been able to find anyone using it in this country. I wouldn't be suprised if there was a small guitar somewhere using it. Final note: John Kinnaird was wonderful to work with, and builds great guitars.

[Rwpierce]

Pictures or it doesn’t exist!

[Universe]

Nice to know you got it built & are happy with it.
Actually a few stress cracks I don't think will really make a big deal with the guitar. Wood shrinks against the grain & there is nothing you can do about that.
A 200 year old table will eventually become more oval.

Be nice if you could make a sound sample of it. I'd love to hear what the wood can sound like.

Sounds like it would make a great guitar but some woods are just going to contort with age & conditions more easy. The grain tends to become hard to keep stable over long pieces.

They say Brazilian Rosewood is prone to cracking too but lucky crossing my fingers my 8 year old seems stable.

Depends upon the grain. Figured wood is hard thing to predict.

Does it smell nice?

Trying to figure out if that I smell is Brazilian of the Pau Santo.

[Universe]

Originally Posted by Rwpierce

Pictures or it doesn’t exist!

Love to see a photo myself. Specs of sound board etc.

Thanks!!

[Jamiejoon]

Here is the build thread. I realize now that John never posted final build pics, and neither did I. The whole guitar has gotten darker in the years since. When it is not dark and stormy here, I will try to add some updated photos with my i-phone.

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=489811

[j. Kinnaird]

for some reason I did post a few (rather poor) pictures on Facebook and not on the AGF. My apologies for that and for the pictures that don't do justice to the guitar. But here is the link: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid...02200673203419

hope this works

BTW, I have had experience with Pau Santo

[Nemoman]

It worked--beautiful guitar, John!

[j. Kinnaird]

Originally Posted by Nemoman

It worked--beautiful guitar, John!

I appreciate that Nemoman

[Universe]

Masterpiece!!

Was just looking at one of JK's 2007's (Not sure about the dog but the birds are cute)