Pick types and technique

[Steel and wood]

There is no right or wrong when it comes to choosing picks.

I have always used very thin Dunlop's for strumming and/or flatpicking. (And yes, I did experiment with all types, sizes, thicknesses at the same time).

Depending on how you hold the pick (and the amount of pick showing) and the angle of the pick to which you hit the strings, you can do anything with a thin pick is my experience.

[hello people]

Yeah anything except make it sound like a thick pick

[adaw2821]

The .73 primetone I tried did sound the best hands down for heavy flat picking, but for strumming it still came back to my .46 nylon.

Again the .46 seems to disappear and sound invisible. I know some would consider anything under 1.0 mm a thin pick and the .6-.7 range I have tried seem to have more of that card in a bike tire sound that people associate with thin picks.

Might try venturing with like a 1.00 mm or 1.5 or something with a beveled edge.

Again I'm not a beginner, control is not and issue for me, and flat picking is not my primary playing style. I most strum and do finger picking.

[Steel and wood]

It's all a matter of personal choice.

I found that thick picks gave me a "thud" for want of a better word tone and feel whereas thin picks gave me a more "brighter" tone. (I could actually feel and hear the string being hit and ringing out even if it meant adjusting the way I held my pick. (Primarily adjusting the amount of pick showing and the angle of the pick against the strings).

Good luck!

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by Steel and wood

It's all a matter of personal choice.

I found that thick picks gave me a "thud" for want of a better word tone and feel whereas thin picks gave me a more "brighter" tone. (I could actually feel and hear the string being hit and ringing out even if it meant adjusting the way I held my pick. (Primarily adjusting the amount of pick showing and the angle of the pick against the strings).

Good luck!

Actually, Steel, you're absolutely right. I'm no physicist, but a thinner pick has much lower mass than a thicker pick, thus less inertia.

If you took a regular Fender 351 shape and played it at 1.0 mm, it would sound pretty good. But take that same shape and shave it down to .75 mm, you're going to have much better tone (and this applies to virtually any pick material). Why? According to Newton's laws, an object with more mass has more inertia, so it takes longer to stop and change direction. So, a little pick "bounces" off the string faster after contact, allowing the string to vibrate longer.

Gee, for a minute there, I almost sounded like I knew what I was talking about.

memmer

[Steel and wood]

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Guitar Picks

Actually, Steel, you're absolutely right. I'm no physicist, but a thinner pick has much lower mass than a thicker pick, thus less inertia.

If you took a regular Fender 351 shape and played it at 1.0 mm, it would sound pretty good. But take that same shape and shave it down to .75 mm, you're going to have much better tone (and this applies to virtually any pick material). Why? According to Newton's laws, an object with more mass has more inertia, so it takes longer to stop and change direction. So, a little pick "bounces" off the string faster after contact, allowing the string to vibrate longer.

Gee, for a minute there, I almost sounded like I knew what I was talking about.

memmer

Ha!

Knew there was some science behind it all

[littlebobby]

Big fat stiff stubbies for flat picking and soloing, floppy Dunlop nylon ones for strumming.

[pbla4024]

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Guitar Picks

Actually, Steel, you're absolutely right. I'm no physicist, but a thinner pick has much lower mass than a thicker pick, thus less inertia.

I am a physicist and I do not think your reasoning is valid. The moving object here is pick plus hand, you have to take into account total mass. And no matter what pick you take, its weight will be negligible when compared to hand.

Originally Posted by pbla4024

I am a physicist and I do not think your reasoning is valid. The moving object here is pick plus hand, you have to take into account total mass. And no matter what pick you take, its weight will be negligible when compared to hand.

Agreed, and said as much in post#39. Mass matters only if you're throwing the pick at the strings.

Of course, what does it mean when a physicist and engineer agree.

Keeping the shape constant, hardness and stiffness of the material account for most of the difference in tone. And I am still baffled by the idea that a thinner pick has "better" tone. It is quite different, but "better" is largely a matter of preference. I don't think a thinner pick offers better tone, but I can't quantify "better". If I want to be objective, I can try to describe the differences in tone.

[BFD]

Originally Posted by adaw2821

The .73 primetone I tried did sound the best hands down for heavy flat picking, but for strumming it still came back to my .46 nylon.

Again the .46 seems to disappear and sound invisible. I know some would consider anything under 1.0 mm a thin pick and the .6-.7 range I have tried seem to have more of that card in a bike tire sound that people associate with thin picks.

Might try venturing with like a 1.00 mm or 1.5 or something with a beveled edge.

Again I'm not a beginner, control is not and issue for me, and flat picking is not my primary playing style. I most strum and do finger picking.

I'd respectfully disagree w/you regarding control not being an issue. I'm sure with the .46s you are accustomed to you have very good control. In general though, thinner picks require much less control than thicker picks to get a good sound with, and they also give you less dynamic control than a thick pick, which is why you find so many advanced players using thick picks.

To vary the attack between light and heavy, whether strumming or flatpicking, your grip needs to be far more versatile, especially on the loose end than with a thin pick. With a thin pick you can get away with (and often need) an overly tight grip, compared with a thicker pick. Good technique with a thick pick definitely takes time to develop, so it's not necessarily apples to apples when you compare your thin vs thick pick sound.

Good choice on the Prime Tones. After a number of decades of guitar and a couple years of concentrated pick trial and error, I find I like 1.4 &1.5 Dunlop Primetone triangles (brown, not red) just about as well as similar Blue Chips with Wegens a very close 3rd, for flatpicking & strumming guitar and mando.

[redir]

I know I'm late to this party but... I just got reacquainted with Fender pics and forgot how much I like them. The medium and the heavy in particular. There is something about that plastic they use that is nice and snappy with good tone.

[muscmp]

as with everything on the agf, it is all subjective.

i use a variety of picks-thin, medium and thick, depending upon the guitar, the song and whether or not i'm singing.

so, no, just because you use a thin or a thick pick doesn't mean you are a better or worse player.

play music!

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by hello people

Yeah anything except make it sound like a thick pick

I disagree totally with this. A great player is a great player, period. Eddie Van Halen and Hendrix did things with a guitar no one had even seen before -- with the same basic tools.

I don't think they do this still, but several decades ago they used to put on an annual golf tournament for the top PGA players (not an official tour event) where the golfer had to play the entire course with a single club (most of them chose a 5 iron), and do you know most of those shot scratch golf, or even below par? I think they even had to put with a 5 iron as well, although they may have been allowed a putter around the greens (memory is a little foggy). Just sayin'....

And even further, how about steller acoustic players who often use only their fingers, not even a thumbpick, such as Lindsay Buckingham, Mississippi John Hurt, Steve Goodman, Paul Simon and -- help me out here, guys. Who am I leaving out?

So I would have to respectfully disagree....

scott

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Guitar Picks

...I don't think they do this still, but several decades ago they used to put on an annual golf tournament for the top PGA players (not an official tour event) where the golfer had to play the entire course with a single club (most of them chose a 5 iron), and do you know most of those shot scratch golf, or even below par?...

Context. On a US Open course most can't play under par with a full bag of clubs. Just because a great player (golf or guitar) can use misapplied tools to accomplish a certain task better than a hack like me has nothing at all to do with the fitness of a tool for a given task. It may be "good enough" under certain circumstances, but it doesn't make it the best tool for the job.

I can name two well known flat pickers (but I won't since people tend to yell at me) who use thin picks, and oddly enough get thin tone. I can't stand to listen to either of them for very long. Their sets are the perfect time to go for more fresh lemonade or barbecue at the festivals. When you have a chance to chat with other pros about these particular players, most will agree, but they're kind enough not to say it in public.

For a pleasant lesson in tone, listen to Tone Poems where Grisman and Rice play each track with a different pair of instruments. The whole album sounds like Grisman and Rice, but you can clearly hear the differences in instruments. Some are more different than others of course, but even great players don't get the same tone from different instruments.

Back to picks, what you like is what you like, but you can't make a thin pick sound like a thick pick any more than you can get D-28 sounds out of a Telecaster.

[adaw2821]

Originally Posted by BFD

I'd respectfully disagree w/you regarding control not being an issue. I'm sure with the .46s you are accustomed to you have very good control. In general though, thinner picks require much less control than thicker picks to get a good sound with, and they also give you less dynamic control than a thick pick, which is why you find so many advanced players using thick picks.

To vary the attack between light and heavy, whether strumming or flatpicking, your grip needs to be far more versatile, especially on the loose end than with a thin pick. With a thin pick you can get away with (and often need) an overly tight grip, compared with a thicker pick. Good technique with a thick pick definitely takes time to develop, so it's not necessarily apples to apples when you compare your thin vs thick pick sound.

Good choice on the Prime Tones. After a number of decades of guitar and a couple years of concentrated pick trial and error, I find I like 1.4 &1.5 Dunlop Primetone triangles (brown, not red) just about as well as similar Blue Chips with Wegens a very close 3rd, for flatpicking & strumming guitar and mando.

I guess I should word it differently. Accuracy maybe? For my playing style I don't need a thicker pick for ACCURACY. I can usually do some pretty harry flat picking with my .46 nylon but it is easier with a slightly thicker pick.

Whether or not my technique/ control over the pick is hindering me getting a good tone out of a thick pick is questionable.

But anything I've heard people recommend for technique i.e. choking down on the tip, more flex/relaxed wrist, and not strumming all six strings all the time are all things I implemented with my thin pick years ago..

Im also wondering and suspect that the pick noise I hear from a thick pick hitting the strings when strumming is more perceptible to me than it would be to anyone listening. It could be it actually produces a better tone from the guitar but I can't hardly stand listening to this clicking sound.

Volume: Never been an issue dynamically. I have always been able to play loud enough and too loud with my thin pick. Probably do to how little I leave sticking out. I do pay a lot of attention to dynamics. one of the best ways to make a song sound better..