Will thicker gauge trebles improve tone?

[Benjo]

Originally Posted by JERZEY

DR Rares and SantaCruz Parabolics are the warmest most mellow trebles I have used.

Thanks will try the DR Rares. the SC Parabolics felt uncomfortable to me on the wound strings.

[Ten]

I stopped using PB due to the transition from wound to unwound. I feel the nickel bronze makes it smoother across the spectrum. Similar at least I think to the issue you are trying to get past. FWIW, I play mediums and dreads with a pick.

[Jim Comeaux]

Thicker gauge trebles will CHANGE the tone. Whether or not that is an IMPROVEMENT is a matter for your ears to decide.

[zoopeda]

Drop tuning with thicker high strings absolutely thickens tone.

For standard tuning, I’ve found 18 gauge B string and 13.5 high E to give some meat to those strings without undue strain to the your fingers or the guitar.

[thomasn]

yes, absolutely, thicker treble strings will generate a fuller core tone. I had the same issue, and thicker E and B strings really helped fatten the sound.

The biggest change though to get a bigger sound is to play deeper into the string. Especially because fingerpicking with nails, that generally makes a thin peaky default sound on the high strings. Play more with a rest stroke, or pull your finger more through the string, rather than a pluck at the string (if that makes sense).

The biggest bonus with thick trebles is that you can manhandle them a lot more. Heavy playing on thin strings just creates more fret buzz or intonation issues. Thicker strings just invite heavier playing, which in turn creates bigger tone, and so on.

[Hoyt]

Pick closer to neck. I always find that warmer sound there, it’s just I’m more comfortable playing toward bridge.

[Robin, Wales]

Hi Benjo,

Just out of interest, do you have a compensated saddle on your guitar?

I only say that because I recently switched two guitars from compensated bone saddles to the old style round topped straight saddles and in both cases it reduced the harshness of the b and e strings.

Also, a flattish break angle from the b and e string where they climb to the saddle can make them sound harsh.

You could also try a softer bridge material.

[Benjo]

Hey Robin thanks a lot for your thoughts about the bridge and the saddle. I have emailed Lowden guitars asking those questions to see if they have suggestions.

The PBSM Lowden Uses a split bone saddle. The trebles are on 1 saddle in the basses are on the other.

As far as I know it's not a compensated saddle but I don't even know what a compensate saddle is. Will look it up though. It's a the saddle that came with the Loudon though I bought the guitar used and the previous owner lowered it a little bit. I have ordered a replacement saddle that will be the default intended height.

Thanks Thomas for your additional thoughts about the tactile difference between playing thinner and thicker gauge strings. That makes sense.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by retsofekaj

You could also try plucking those strings closer to the neck. That warms and fattens the tone.

+1

Tuning down a step helps too.

[AcousticDreams]

There are so many things that can be done to help get the sound you want.
I like Hoyt's suggestion to play closer to the neck. You will hear an immediate difference in tone.

I am all over the place in my playing( from at the very top of the soundhole....to an 1/2 from the bridge, to get the sound I want. I have worked hard to learn to play using a wide area to create the tones I want.

I also make my own saddles and nuts and have done lots of experimentation with different materials.

I am a huge fan of Unbleached bone. The opinion of Bleached bone verses Unbleached bone is all over the place. There are some saddle makers that claim there is no difference in tone between the two.
But a very famous luthier to the stars, a personal friend of mine who has been in the business for 35 years or so, and has worked on thousands of guitars...turned me on to Unbleached bone. It Can tame those harsh treble frequencies and offer a tiny bit more harmonics and or give you a more rounded tone. Music Tone Words are misleading. What is thin to one person..is Weak to another.

Of course, bone is inconsistent. So one piece of the same material can sound slightly different than the next of the same material. Just like wood. But Overall, I am a believer in Unbleached bone.

[Benjo]

Originally Posted by TBman

+1

Tuning down a step helps too.

I've found that playing near the neck past the sound hole does darken the tone but that it takes the punch out of the sound, so it doesn't fatten the tone and it delivers slightly less volume and presence (i.e. probably doesn't vibrate the body as aggressively). Its good for when you want to play softer. I'm looking for a warmer default tone at all dynamics, not just softer.

Yep, I mentioned in my post that I tune down. Either a whole step or three half steps. Its so much more enjoyable to play when the strings are less stiff.

[Benjo]

Thanks Knives&Guitars re unbleached bone. I will ask Lowden for their thoughts on that.

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by Benjo

Thanks Knives&Guitars re unbleached bone. I will ask Lowden for their thoughts on that.

Again, so hard to know exactly what you are looking for sound wise.

I will make a comparison between my experiences with Camel Bone vs Unbleached bone.

In many ways...it is like the difference between Moonwood spruce, verses Sitka spruce. In my experiences, Moonwood gives a more fundamental note representation than Sitka. The result is Notes stand out more...but you loose some overtones & harmonics.

I have found it the same for Camel bone. It gives a more fundamental note representation, and unbleached bone is more open with harmonics and overtones.

For years I used Camel bone for this reason, it made the High E & B stand out more. But then I was able to make those strings stand out more using other methods, and returned to Unbleached bone for the added overtones.

I am a great believer in being able to every so slightly adjust the balance of many guitars. With that being said...there is only so far you can go before another type guitar, that has the basic sound you are looking for, should be considered.

[Benjo]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

I am a great believer in being able to every so slightly adjust the balance of many guitars. With that being said...there is only so far you can go before another type guitar, that has the basic sound you are looking for, should be considered.

Agreed. The Lowden I own is capable of beautiful warm full tone on the 1st string, so I know the capability is there.

Woods are:
BACK AND SIDES
Honduras rosewood

SOUNDBOARD
Adirondack

It's just that it takes more fingernail maintenance than I'd like to achieve it, so the tone I want is not the default tone I usually get. Hence this forum post re: 1st string.

[ewalling]

Yes, I think thicker strings eliminate much of the 'shimmer' from trebles. Personally speaking, that shimmer is one of the most appealing things about a steel string acoustic guitar. For warm, mellow sounds, I play my two nylon stringed guitars. .