Plastic...is it too late?

[edcmat-l1]

Originally Posted by dilver

The great pacific garbage patch is twice the size of Texas… just floating around the ocean and getting bigger. The world has billions of dollars and only one planet. I suspect that’s why billionaires are so interested in space travel.

Saddest part is, every ocean has one.

[Murphy Slaw]

Originally Posted by dilver

The great pacific garbage patch is twice the size of Texas… just floating around the ocean and getting bigger. The world has billions of dollars and only one planet. I suspect that’s why billionaires are so interested in space travel.

You'd think just 1 of those billionaires who care so much would put videos of that in huge television ad buys, like politicians during elections. All over social media, billboards and such.

I've only seen one picture of it, years ago promoting a documentary I think.

If more people actually SAW it, it could help change habits.

Maybe.

[icuker]

I agree with the advertising bit. If we saw the scale of what we are doing to the planet there might be more motivation to find solutions to it.

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by Murphy Slaw

I've only seen one picture of it, years ago promoting a documentary I think.

George Soros behind it, maybe?

We all know 1 billionaire who's one of the biggest names behind one of the "efforts" that's supposed to be key in making the world a cleaner place. For now the products they make definitely don't target the masses but who knows...

[Slothead56]

Factoid: scientists project there will be more plastic in the oceans than fish by 2050.

I am particularly amused and disturbed by locals municipalities and states that ban plastic shopping bags because “they’re bad for the environment” (no argument) and yet virtually everything you can buy in a grocery store is packaged in plastic. Like putting out a house fire with an eyedropper.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by Slothead56

Factoid: scientists project there will be more plastic in the oceans than fish by 2050.

I am particularly amused and disturbed by locals municipalities and states that ban plastic shopping bags because “they’re bad for the environment” (no argument) and yet virtually everything you can buy in a grocery store is packaged in plastic. Like putting out a house fire with an eyedropper.

I can't guess why you are disturbed about local bag bans, but in addition to cutting trash, they reduce labor and complications with storm and sanitary sewer management.

If you imagine the Venn diagram idea, the plastic bags for shoppers are a different circle than retail packaging.

This bags topic has kept me curious and I've followed local news, and two associates. One is a sewage district management staff and a cousin who is in an east coast city's trash and recycling management position. I followed it locally because I was a business interests rep when our ordinance was created.

Maybe it would not be your firehose example but also not be an eyedropper if we changed from the small number of municipalities that have the bans, but far more important, changed from the small number of municipalities that better manage all of their waste, recycling and sewer matters.

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by imwjl

they reduce labor and complications with storm and sanitary sewer management.

IOW we're back to the education-of-the-masses aspect of the whole problem (people actually flush this kind of plastic bag through the toilet but not other plastics???)

[Jamolay]

Unfortunately, I think there is a conceptual problem due to the ubiquitous nature of plastic in our lives. We really take it for granted and although we are trying to take conservation steps, which is good and important, unless we undergo a massive cultural change in regard to our approach to plastic and the environment as a whole, we are screwed.

One example I experienced was a trip 5 or 6 years ago to the San Diego Aquarium (right on the bay). They are a facility of environmental education and concern with courses, actions and and exhibits to spotlight the environment and our impact as well as the impact on living animals.

I went through an extensive exhibit on plastic in the ocean with all the gory details on the effects on animals. Powerfully done. Then walked around the corner, literally 10ft from the end of the exhibit and myself in a gift shop with bin after bin of those 1/4” mini plastic figurines of all the sea animals….[emoji2361]
Where do they think that stuff goes after a day or two in some kids hands? And they are right on the bay….

[Slothead56]

Originally Posted by imwjl

I can't guess why you are disturbed about local bag bans, but in addition to cutting trash, they reduce labor and complications with storm and sanitary sewer management.

If you imagine the Venn diagram idea, the plastic bags for shoppers are a different circle than retail packaging.

This bags topic has kept me curious and I've followed local news, and two associates. One is a sewage district management staff and a cousin who is in an east coast city's trash and recycling management position. I followed it locally because I was a business interests rep when our ordinance was created.

Maybe it would not be your firehose example but also not be an eyedropper if we changed from the small number of municipalities that have the bans, but far more important, changed from the small number of municipalities that better manage all of their waste, recycling and sewer matters.

I think you’re missing my point.

I support plastic bag bans and undoubtedly they are important a s a unique usage of plastic. But, as important as the bans may be, I think it’s a feel good action which ignores the wide, wide use of plastic packaging in consumer packaged goods. That was my eye dropper comparison…plastic is plastic.

You really want to make a difference? Work with food manufacturer’s to find alternate packaging options.

And for the sake of all that is logical, work to eliminate single use plastic water bottles from the consumption chain, especially at home. 80% of those bottles go into waterways or landfills. There are much better options for drinking water.

[frankmcr]

Required change(s)

Go to local shops like they (used to?) do in Europe (for example)

Meat from a butcher, fruit & veg from a greengrocer, bread from a baker

Carry your purchases home in a string bag

Strawberries (or whatever) out of season in your area? Solution: get by without strawberries for a while

Basically 1920s tech as far as food packaging goes. We did OK in the 1920s. Heck, we built this country in the 1890s.

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by Slothead56

You really want to make a difference? Work with food manufacturer’s to find alternate packaging options.

AFAIK that's happening in the EU, but it's a long road if we don't want to throw all the advances in hygiene and related areas overboard AND keep prices affordable for everyone. People who're aware/concerned/engaged already buy in "biological" (organic in US speak?) stores, though there too not everything is sold in bulk.

FWIW, the plastic baggies to put fruit & vegetables in have been replaced with bags of a supposedly much quicker bio-degrading substance that may be (non-fossilised) plant-based. They certainly degrade quickly, and also make produce you keep in them degrade more quickly somehow.

I've learned last summer that old ("french terry") wash cloths kept humid are a great way to store fresh produce (chillis) from my garden in the veggie drawer (you can also buy ditto bags for 10-20$ a piece if you prefer). The logical concusion would be that you have a collection of similar cotton bags that you rotate through and use during shopping too (just make sure to weigh your purchases without the bag ).
Of course the cotton production industry isn't exactly the least eco-friendly from what I understand, but that should be offset at least somewhat by the long use you should get out of these bags.

And for the sake of all that is logical, work to eliminate single use plastic water bottles [...]There are much better options for drinking water.

For drinking, sure. But what options do you see to distribute mineral water that doesn't come at the cost of a big overhead, price increase or other unhealthy aspects (for us or the environment)? I guess aluminium cans like used for beer and softdrinks could be a solution, but does anyone know what the insides of those cans are lined with?

Originally Posted by frankmcr

Go to local shops like they (used to?) do in Europe (for example).
Carry your purchases home in a string bag

Hah, string bags. Haven't seen those in years, but guess what they were made of...
But: even the big (for us) supermarkets here now sell good-sized sturdy shopping bags made of recycled plastics, which they'll take back for trade-in when they're worn. They're widely used for transporting all kinds of different things, and the trade-in aspect apparently incites people to replace them responsibly.

Fun fact: TV series give us the idea that at least the US city dwellers shop in local stores and take their groceries home in nice big (and probably highly impractical) paper bags.

[tinnitus]

I'd like to see waste management companies all adapt the same practices/policies across the board.

Some remind us to recycle all plastics including those flimsy bags from grocery stores, while others provide quarterly printed posters reminding us to keep those very bags out of recycling because they snag, tangle and damage sorting equipment. Some plastic containers are okay to recycle, but clear plastic "clamshells" are verboten (like restaurant to-go containers and those ridiculous form-fit Costco 4-apple "shells"). How many consumers will arm-wrestle and eventually cut a product free from a rigid hybrid package and then meticulously separate the remaining hard plastic bubble from the sandwiched cardboard placard? With that done (sort of), which component is recyclable and which is not?

Can't blame Waste Management for any confusion. Informing/educating a broad customer-base about unique local sorting/disposal requirements is no easy task, and too many folks don't bother to look, even when the info is placed right under their noses.

I cannot claim to have a solution. As modern-ish Homo Sapiens have been kicking up dust for 300,000 years, I find it a bit alarming to consider that the ever-expanding world population has tripled in my relatively short lifetime. Tripled.

[frankmcr]

Originally Posted by RJVB

For drinking, sure. But what options do you see to distribute mineral water that doesn't come at the cost of a big overhead, price increase or other unhealthy aspects (for us or the environment)? I guess aluminium cans like used for beer and softdrinks could be a solution, but does anyone know what the insides of those cans are lined with?



Hah, string bags. Haven't seen those in years, but guess what they were made of...
.

If people can't drink the water that comes out of their faucets they have a lot bigger ecological problem than the materials their canned water from the store is lined with.

The string bag I bought from amazon last year was made of cotton. Still going strong twelve months on.

[imwjl]

FWIW, advertising email I got from Patagonia today announced their whole line of rainwear has now transitioned to no longer using the PFC variants that are forever chemicals and being found in living beings.

For another point on the trash/waste firms, they do what the municipalities pay them to do. We have property tax bills for two. One has paid the price to keep recycling when markets are not strong. One has eliminated all trash pickup and minimally meets state and federal standards at the county "dump". If not for state and federal standards, the group now dominating the town and county boards would have everyone burn or bury. We live between perfect pictures of the extremes in our country.

One other time I walked into a Patagonia store with my about 40 year old stuff and was treated like royalty and got a free replacement. Maybe from today's news I can bring in my worn out around 1990 storm jacket and get the new PFC free variation.

Regardless, I like that Patagonia tries like that, is known as a good employer, and still makes things for those of us who've not joined the obesity epidemic.