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  #1  
Old 11-06-2013, 09:02 PM
Ceabeceabe Ceabeceabe is offline
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Default LR Baggs Anthem vs Lyric

I've got an OM-21 and am thinking of putting an Anthem or Lyric in. I've seen a couple of people have the Anthem in 1 of their guitars and the Lyric in another. Others have probably had one, replaced it with the other...

Was wondering which people preferred, and why.

Also, what do others recommend for the om-21, and why?

Thank,

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Old 11-13-2013, 01:22 PM
LTC C LTC C is offline
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I'm interested in this as well. It would seem the Anthem would be more complete and versatile, though it's designed to split the frequency responsibilities. It would be really nice if the Anthem had full dual function, mixing the Lyric mic with the Element pickup. Having full frequency range on both pickups would be the ultimate in versatility.
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Old 11-13-2013, 04:17 PM
rschultz rschultz is offline
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Baggs designed the Lyric with 2nd source solder tabs so you can then add something else to it; M1, M80, other mag, K&K, anything that's passive. The downside to this is you have to mix it yourself externally compared to the Anthem which is a single single out.

Some people (like me) don't like and can't stand having an undersaddle pickup... even in the low end they can sound harsh. So I've mixed the Lyric with both the K&K and the Fishman Blackstack mag. Both worked well, each had it's own thang going on.

The advantage of the Lyric is that it simply works by itself too. Twice now I was all ready to lead worship with the Lyric + Blackstack... and then at the last minute I decided it wasn't worth the trouble and went with just the Lyric. Sounded fine in the midst of a band. I'll admit that in a solo situation it is weak in the bass and a mag or the K&K really helps round out that low end.

Finally, when comparing the Lyric with the Anthem mic (ignoring the element), they really are different yet hard to describe. Others may be able to do better than I.
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  #4  
Old 11-13-2013, 05:00 PM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTC C View Post
I'm interested in this as well. It would seem the Anthem would be more complete and versatile, though it's designed to split the frequency responsibilities. It would be really nice if the Anthem had full dual function, mixing the Lyric mic with the Element pickup. Having full frequency range on both pickups would be the ultimate in versatility.
When it comes to USTs, I believe that one can do much better than the Element. I'm currently experimenting with a dual system comprised of a PUTW I/O UST and a Wendler Dynafield IV system (a mic-like pickup) in a spruce/mahogany Samick OM. So far, I like the blend better than what I'm getting from my Anthem-equipped cedar/mahogany Samick OM. The caveat is that the Anthem-equipped guitar is much more plug-n-play because the signals are blended in the Anthem preamp.
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Old 11-13-2013, 05:08 PM
Doubleneck Doubleneck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rschultz View Post
Baggs designed the Lyric with 2nd source solder tabs so you can then add something else to it; M1, M80, other mag, K&K, anything that's passive. The downside to this is you have to mix it yourself externally compared to the Anthem which is a single single out.

Some people (like me) don't like and can't stand having an undersaddle pickup... even in the low end they can sound harsh. So I've mixed the Lyric with both the K&K and the Fishman Blackstack mag. Both worked well, each had it's own thang going on.

The advantage of the Lyric is that it simply works by itself too. Twice now I was all ready to lead worship with the Lyric + Blackstack... and then at the last minute I decided it wasn't worth the trouble and went with just the Lyric. Sounded fine in the midst of a band. I'll admit that in a solo situation it is weak in the bass and a mag or the K&K really helps round out that low end.

Finally, when comparing the Lyric with the Anthem mic (ignoring the element), they really are different yet hard to describe. Others may be able to do better than I.
I feel like I could have written the above almost word for word. Exactly the same experience with the Lyric and a Mag pickup.
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  #6  
Old 11-13-2013, 06:59 PM
simondylan simondylan is offline
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Okay. I have both. Both are good but I find they each have their place. I have also played or experienced just about every other pickup system available. All under-saddle pickups have the same basic characteristics. If someone tells you different they are ignorant in my opinion. If they play a Samick, well that's very telling. Sorry.
What Baggs did with the anthem is take out all the ugly stuff from the pickup part of the signal, allowing the mic and pickup to each function where they work best. The end result is awesome. I actually prefer the Anthem SL. It has a nice low-end punch with very sweet natural highs and mids. Being set up and installed correctly is important though. A bad install could result in a bad sound. The Lyric is very good too! I like it for my old Martin. Sounds just like it through my PA.
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  #7  
Old 11-13-2013, 09:41 PM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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FYI, simondylan, the Pick-up The World I/O UST captures much more top resonance than any other undersaddle pickup which I've tried. (I don't claim to have tried them all, but I'm very well acquainted with the Baggs Element.) Here's a vid where I'm using the I/O UST to amplify my "telling" little Samick OM.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK8zY...F495E4747F2141
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  #8  
Old 11-14-2013, 10:28 AM
stevecuss stevecuss is offline
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I have no experience with the Lyric, but here's my experience with the Anthem:

The concept, in my opinion, is game changing. Using a crossover to provide most of the tone from the mic, but the low end from the UST is genius and it works. I believe it is an industry game changer, but like most innovations, will be improved upon by others soon.

Some downsides:

-- the preamp, while light, still adds mass to the guitar. My Mcilroy has bracing that makes mounting the preamp a challenge.

-- the UST is still a UST. I agree with the above poster who said that USTs are pretty much the same ball of wax.

-- When I first installed the UST, I swear I could tell a tonal difference in the unplugged sound of my Mcilroy. It felt muffled. Now it does not feel muffled. Have my ears adjusted, or has the saddle adjusted back, or was I imagining the whole thing? I don't know, but I look forward to a good non UST solution one day. I simply believe that anything between the saddle and guitar body is a bad thing.

But wow, is this thing ever plug and play! Loud, quiet, strumming, finger style, full band, the anthem covers it all and I get several rave reviews on tone every time I plug in. I've used most of the main pickup solutions over the years and this one is my favorite overall solution. Our worship leader has a K&K in his Goodall. It sounds excellent too, but is quite feedback prone at stage volumes even with a sound hole blocker and needed quite aggressive eq notching. Anthem is more plug and play in both regards (more feedback proof, less needing eq adjustments.) YMMV of course.

I look forward to the next iteration from Baggs or whoever that puts a mic with another non UST source for the same idea.

I considered switching to the Lyric and ditching the UST, but fear that my jumbo, highly resonant Mcilroy would not handle the volume with just a Lyric, so for now, I'm sticking with the anthem

best wishes on your pickup journey. Its a journey fraught with compromise and money!
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Old 11-14-2013, 10:40 AM
rschultz rschultz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevecuss View Post
But wow, is this thing ever plug and play! Loud, quiet, strumming, finger style, full band, the anthem covers it all and I get several rave reviews on tone every time I plug in. I've used most of the main pickup solutions over the years and this one is my favorite overall solution. Our worship leader has a K&K in his Goodall. It sounds excellent too, but is quite feedback prone at stage volumes even with a sound hole blocker and needed quite aggressive eq notching. Anthem is more plug and play in both regards (more feedback proof, less needing eq adjustments.) YMMV of course.


I considered switching to the Lyric and ditching the UST, but fear that my jumbo, highly resonant Mcilroy would not handle the volume with just a Lyric, so for now, I'm sticking with the anthem
First, the K&K is very feedback resistant IMO. I play with it on loud stages all the time, no problems unless I point the monitor straight at my guitar. That's the main thing I think is to adjust your monitor(s) so that it isn't directly pointed at your guitar. EQ notching... I think it needs some mids taken out between 400-800 Hz.

Second, the Lyric is also very feedback resistant in my Taylor Jumbo. YMMV.
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  #10  
Old 11-14-2013, 10:54 AM
Walternativo Walternativo is offline
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Default Lyric

I vote the lyric. It's simply the definitive pickup in my opinion, you reach the closest sound to the "natural" and microphoned sound of your guitar. If I had to adjust it with another pickup together I would not use an undersaddle but a magnet, in fact you can connect in stereo output these two signals through the lyric internal preamp.
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Old 11-14-2013, 11:10 AM
stevecuss stevecuss is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rschultz View Post
First, the K&K is very feedback resistant IMO. I play with it on loud stages all the time, no problems unless I point the monitor straight at my guitar. That's the main thing I think is to adjust your monitor(s) so that it isn't directly pointed at your guitar. EQ notching... I think it needs some mids taken out between 400-800 Hz.

Second, the Lyric is also very feedback resistant in my Taylor Jumbo. YMMV.
Rschultz,

yeah, we're quite puzzled by the K&K issues we have. Its in many ways the ideal pickup. Plenty of output, minimally invasive, great tone without harshness. We use an in-ear monitoring system, so the only thing we can figure is that our mains bleed onto the stage too much and the Goodall is super resonant. Our other thought is that perhaps its an older K&K which I've heard was more feedback prone. But no doubt, its a great pickup solution
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Old 11-14-2013, 04:34 PM
rschultz rschultz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevecuss View Post
Rschultz,

yeah, we're quite puzzled by the K&K issues we have. Its in many ways the ideal pickup. Plenty of output, minimally invasive, great tone without harshness. We use an in-ear monitoring system, so the only thing we can figure is that our mains bleed onto the stage too much and the Goodall is super resonant. Our other thought is that perhaps its an older K&K which I've heard was more feedback prone. But no doubt, its a great pickup solution
This is a long shot, but recently we've been having some feedback problems too. My first instinct when it happens is... "Oh crap, it's my guitar". But the sound guy figured out this past Sunday that it was my vocal mic - it was gained up too high and was catching some of the piano low end coming out of the sub. If you've got IEM's and no other monitors, then it has to be a mic or an acoustic guitar. Try turning on some rockin' house music and leave your mic's on and see what happens.

Feedback is a *&^%^$ to figure out sometimes, and nothing kills your mojo quicker than feedback. In my experience though the K&K has rarely been the problem... except when I had 2 monitors pointed right at me.
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  #13  
Old 02-04-2014, 10:37 AM
$ongWriter $ongWriter is offline
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Default my 2 cents..

I had my Lyric in my D-18. It sounded too "thin" for me. I put it in my Bourgeois Vintage D and like it. The rosewood had more bottom end and to my ear it sounds great now. I also have an Anthem in my Bourgeois JOM. Now it's not as deep a tone but is very balanced and it sounds great with the Anthem. But, each pick up need the mids scooped out..to my ear. Once I do that they are great!!
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  #14  
Old 02-04-2014, 02:12 PM
jseth jseth is offline
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I have the Anthem SL system in both my Mark Angus 6 and 12 string guitars; they are my "stage" guitars, and I like the sound of the Anthem SL in them just fine. It is a bit of a balancing act to adjust the mix between the UST and the mic, but once you get that dialed in, there is no need to change it... UNLESS you change the PA/amp that you are using with it...

For instance, my Anthems are set for my Bose L1 Model I Classic... but, playing through my (newly acquired) AER Compact 60, the mix on the 12 string just does not sound right...

I have found very little, if any, of the usual sonic insubordination from the Element (UST) portion of the Anthem; I am guessing that this is due to the fact that the UST ONLY focuses on the lower frequencies (120 hz and lower)... I think that it does pick up a bit of the higher tones, but the FOCUS is on the low range... so, I don't hear any "quacking" coming from the thing at all...

The biggest downside to the Anthem is that it changed the "unplugged" sound of my guitars, especially noticeable on the 6 string... now, I've played that 6 string for 35 years and am extremely familiar with the sounds it makes. Perhaps someone who installs the Anthem in a fairly new guitar wouldn't notice the difference, but I sure could hear it! Seemed like a loss of volume in the 10-15% range, along with a fairly dramatic tonal shift; the difference in tone was more of an "evening out" of the tone spectrum, taming the pronounced mid-range of my Angus, and adding some extra high end and low end. Not a bad thing, I suppose, but I wasn't prepared for such a difference in sound.

Similar to another reply, after 6-10 months, things with that 6 string have settled down and returned, if not entirely, at least mostly to normal... I'm guessing that the Element, being a "squishy" covering around the actual UST, must settle in after a period of time with the saddle pressing down on it.

I have a K&K PW Mini in my (new-ish) Goodall Grand Concert, being unwilling to compromise the tone and volume of that guitar... I like that there are no btteries inside the guitar, and that the tone/volume of the instrument remains unchanged due to the installation. I don't think it's "all that and a bag of chips", however... to my ears, the K&K NEEDS a good pre-amp to sound it's best, and even then, it needs a microphone (either internal or external) to give it more of what the guitar actually sounds like, as the SBTs don't pick up string noise or that "breath" that an acoustic guitar has naturally...

So, I'm pretty happy with the Anthem SL system. I have found that, along with the balance being set correctly, the Anthem REALLY wants to have the gain structure set correctly... when it's not? It sounds like poo...
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  #15  
Old 02-08-2014, 09:30 AM
limeb limeb is offline
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I installed the Lyric to my S&P and found the tone fantastic at home through an amp, and during sound checking, but during the actual gigs witrh it I ended up with feedback when the sound tech tried to get more bottom into it. They all three complained of this. My impression so far is it would work well for recording, but live it can be problematic.
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