BagAmp in the house!

[lpa53]

This may have been linked here already, but a few more Acoustic Guitar Forum members have received their test units from Jack and reviews are starting to be posted here >

So far the reviews seem to praise the BA's overall clean sound but dislike the reverb and EQ controls. Those dislikes I assume Jack may say will be taken care of with the addition of the upcoming Bagamp Mixer. Of course as has been mentioned before, adding this increases the BA's weight, cost, and portability, possibly defeating the unit's main selling points.

However, so far none of the reviews (other than Larry Patis' first review) address the dispersion issue and compare it against Bose or Soloamp units. If more testers would do that, and if they confirm Larry's impression of the BAs having better dispersion that the SA, perhaps the other concerns would be overcome. In other words, if the addition of external EQ and reverb (Bagamp Mixer or other) raised the cost to that of an SA, BUT the resulting sound was was equal in quality to SA but with better dispersion, then more people may be encouraged to give it a go.

So I'll still be watching this story. Wish I could test one of these alongside my Soloamp, for which I still have nine months before having to pay.

[FingerPlucked]

Originally Posted by lpa53

So far the reviews seem to praise the BA's overall clean sound but dislike the reverb and EQ controls. Those dislikes I assume Jack may say will be taken care of with the addition of the upcoming Bagamp Mixer. Of course as has been mentioned before, adding this increases the BA's weight, cost, and portability, possibly defeating the unit's main selling points.

However, so far none of the reviews (other than Larry Patis' first review) address the dispersion issue and compare it against Bose or Soloamp units. If more testers would do that, and if they confirm Larry's impression of the BAs having better dispersion that the SA, perhaps the other concerns would be overcome. In other words, if the addition of external EQ and reverb (Bagamp Mixer or other) raised the cost to that of an SA, BUT the resulting sound was was equal in quality to SA but with better dispersion, then more people may be encouraged to give it a go.

So I'll still be watching this story. Wish I could test one of these alongside my Soloamp, for which I still have nine months before having to pay.

Further down below is a copy of my review of the BagAmp from AG. But I also wanted to address a couple things you said.

Starting backward, you're in luck -- I see that you're in the Chicago area as well. Maybe we can figure out a way to meet up. If so, I'll be happy to let you try my BagAmp.

Sound dispersion: You might as well just take Larry's word for it. As I found out today, he was pretty much right on all other aspects of this amp. I have no gigs currently lined up and haven't been looking for any, so I don't expect to get into a good sized room in the foreseeable future. (I'd take it out in my backyard, but it's cold out there.)

And your first point, the lack of controls: IMO, this is the biggest weakness of the amp. A good reverb and full eq controls should be on the amp, but they're not. However, don't think that these obvious drawbacks are serious enough to "defeat the unit's main selling points." This is a good sounding amp that has a lot of advantages. It's still going to be a good buy. (Although it would be even better with full controls.)

Here's my review posted on the AG forum:

I received mine today as well. I didn’t take any pictures, but I was tempted because the amp looks so different from anything I’ve used before. The padded case is about the same size as a hard shell rectangular electric guitar case, but thicker. It has a carrying handle and a shoulder strap. As you can see in Mike’s pics, the case has compartments for the amp, stand and power cord.

I think the amp’s going to be a winner. It has a nice clear tone. It seems to be more feedback resistant than my other amps (current and past). Unlike Bill, I did not start with the volume low and work my way up. Standing at the amp with mic in hand (Shure Beta 58a), I started increasing the volume in search of the feedback threshold. I didn’t really find it. Instead, I got to a point where I felt it was plenty loud, and left it there. That was with the mic’s channel set at 12 o’clock and the master at 3 o’clock.

I plugged in my guitar (CA OX with L.R. Baggs Stage Pro electronics + Fishman Aura pedal) and adjusted the volume to match the vocal channel, then started tweaking the tone on both channels.

As others have noted, the reverb is not reverb, it’s more of an echo/delay, and is IMO, practically useless. I did use just the slightest hint of it, but I would rather have a true reverb. Better yet would be a few different types of reverb. The lack of reverb on this amp is not a deal breaker for me, but it would have been nice.

Also as others have noted, the tone control is less than ideal. I used it sparingly, nudging it slightly toward the bass side on my vocal, and a little more than that for my guitar. If you adjust the tone control too much to the bass or treble side, you lose sound on the opposite side of the spectrum. Two or three tone controls for each channel would be an improvement.

Back to the volume: without realizing it, I was overdriving the amp. During loud passages with aggressive strumming and loud singing, the sound was breaking up and distorting. I had already read the owner’s manual and had seen the part stating that the amp has protection circuitry that limits the output and if overdriven, distortion will occur. I saw that in the manual, but I guess I didn’t really pay attention to it until I ran into it myself.

I didn’t realize just how loud the amp was initially -- much louder than I normally would play with my other amp. I left it at that level for a while before backing off the volume and noticing a big improvement in clarity.

I eventually changed guitars. My CA GX model with L.R. Baggs I-Mix electronics straight into the amp sounded better than my OX/Stage Pro/Aura combo. I think that’s due to the clarity of the sound; the OX sounded just a little too bright.

Altogether, I played and sang through the BagAmp for about 2 hours. The sound of the amp grew on me (especially after I turned the volume down and my ears quit bleeding). I gradually got used to hearing myself without reverb and without my usual eq’ing (typical smiley face with bass/treble boost and optional mid-cut).

This amp doesn’t have as much bass as my Genz Benz, but I didn’t really miss it. In the future I may try running a line out from the BagAmp to the Genz Benz to see if that adds something to the bottom end. I would definitely try something along those lines before trying to decide if I wanted to add a subwoofer.

The BagAmp has a very natural sound. I don’t think a subwoofer is necessary, although it might be an enhancement to an already good sounding amp. (The drawback to a subwoofer, money aside, is that you start losing some of the amp’s portability and ease of setup.)

I did not get a chance to test this amp in a big room to see what happens with its sound dispersion, and it will probably be a while before I get the opportunity.

The only two negatives to this amp that I’ve seen are the lack of reverb and multi-band eq controls. But the positives outweigh the negatives, IMO. At $700, if I was in the market for a new amp, I’d buy a BagAmp.

[lpa53]

Originally Posted by FingerPlucked

Further down below is a copy of my review of the BagAmp from AG. But I also wanted to address a couple things you said.

Starting backward, you're in luck -- I see that you're in the Chicago area as well. Maybe we can figure out a way to meet up. If so, I'll be happy to let you try my BagAmp...

I'd love to give yor BA a try if we could meet up. And I could bring my Soloamp for comparison. I'll send you a PM.

[BuleriaChk]

I'm glad to see the BagAmp become available, although I must say I am VERY happy with my SoloAmp. I would really miss its reverb (not so much the tone controls, because my Taks sound excellent with flat EQ, and in any case, I can control it from the CTP-2)

I played the SoloAmp for the second night at my gig, with an wireless Guitar Bug, and walked around the restaurant - and it sounded great everywhere, even sitting close with it just behind me (I sit when I perform, so perhaps the loudness at close range doesn't bother me like it would standing guitarists).
That said, with it loud enough to cover the whole restaurant (smal to medium sized), I had no trouble whatever with the ear fatigue others had mentioned).

I do think the SA is MUCH more portable than the BA, and the case is much better designed (to judge from the photos). I also like the S/R loops (in case I want to take my GT-10), and the Aux in for my rhythm backing tracks...

There also is plenty of bass for the guitar and my backing tracks - not as much as a dJ would need, but plenty to bring out that part of the spectrum for the guitar and a basic drum set (from, say, a drum machine) as accompaniment...... Doubt if the bass would blow the windows out, but it is not trivial either, and more than enough for what I need.

I got my SA as a demo for $900 from Sweetwater, so the difference more than paid for the reverb, S/R loops, bag, driver cover and all the other "extras" compared to the BA, at least in my opinion (which is subject to change, and highly subjective anyway.....)

The SA is quite comparable to my LR Baggs A-Ref (and may even be better for vocals - I don't use that much, but may someday in the future)

The one complaint I have is that it is not dead quiet - there is a low hum (Fishman called it a "noise floor") - I can't hear it at three feet away, but nevertheless, it COULD have been perfect - all of my other amps ARE dead quiet.....

I'll be particularly interested in reviews who have access to both, though, and the BagAmp certainly appears to be a viable alternative to the L1 and SA for those who want its particular configuration....

Best Regards,

Chuck

[geokie8]

Can these line-array amp systems be used outdoors; i.e., does the sound dispersion that everyone likes so much better than traditional loudspeakers work against itself when used outdoors?

I was about ready to pull the trigger on a single JBL EON 510 that I would use like an upscale version of a Roland StreetCube, but the price of the Bagamp has me wondering if I should be re-thinking this. Most of the places I play indoors have their own house system, but if the Bagamp could do both I might reconsider.

(The Soloamp might be the best solution but it has a much higher price).

geokie8

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by geokie8

Can these line-array amp systems be used outdoors; i.e., does the sound dispersion that everyone likes so much better than traditional loudspeakers work against itself when used outdoors?

I was about ready to pull the trigger on a single JBL EON 510 that I would use like an upscale version of a Roland StreetCube, but the price of the Bagamp has me wondering if I should be re-thinking this. Most of the places I play indoors have their own house system, but if the Bagamp could do both I might reconsider.

(The Soloamp might be the best solution but it has a much higher price).

geokie8

Line arrays typically work better than conventional speaker cabinets for outside events.

[geokie8]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

Line arrays typically work better than conventional speaker cabinets for outside events.

I would have thought the greater projection of the traditional loudspeaker would give it the advantage over something that disperses.

So traditional speakers benefit from the room ambiance (reflections, etc) whereas line array systems don't require walls and ceilings to project its sound?

Or is the line array system better but only up to a certain distance?

geokie8

P.S. Thx for the fast response BTW

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by geokie8

I would have thought the greater projection of the traditional loudspeaker would give it the advantage over something that disperses.

So traditional speakers benefit from the room ambiance (reflections, etc) whereas line array systems don't require walls and ceilings to project its sound?

Or is the line array system better but only up to a certain distance?

geokie8

P.S. Thx for the fast response BTW

I don't think you understand what a line-array is, and what it accomplishes.

I cannot tell you the physics behind this (because I do not know it!), but the resulting function of a true line-array systems (BagAmp and Bose) is that they have greater propagation of the sound (travels further at a more consistent volume from the source).

Herb may be able to fill us in on the details...?

[Pegleg]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

I don't think you understand what a line-array is, and what it accomplishes.

I cannot tell you the physics behind this (because I do not know it!), but the resulting function of a true line-array systems (BagAmp and Bose) is that they have greater propagation of the sound (travels further at a more consistent volume from the source).

Herb may be able to fill us in on the details...?

And why is a SoloAmp not "line array"? Based on the descriptions I've read, "line array" is simply a series of speakers aligned closely together in a vertical (normally) or horizontal line. Thanks in advance for an understanding.

[kramster]

In the L1 Model 2 the speakers are not all aiming the same way (2 different ways) and the Compact even more directions... ut oh now what??

[geokie8]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

I don't think you understand what a line-array is, and what it accomplishes.

Heck, I don't even know how Bose gets all that sound out of their little CD player -- even when the guy on TV explains it to me with arrows and everything.

I think I get the concept that there is less of a dropoff in volume as you get further from the sound source; it's just that I assumed there was a trade-off somewhere. I probably also assumed the trade-off was a shorter overall distance and that sound would travel better from a loudspeaker when fighting the elements. Perhaps both are wrong assumptions.

geokie8

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by geokie8

I would have thought the greater projection of the traditional loudspeaker would give it the advantage over something that disperses.

So traditional speakers benefit from the room ambiance (reflections, etc) whereas line array systems don't require walls and ceilings to project its sound?

Or is the line array system better but only up to a certain distance?

geokie8

P.S. Thx for the fast response BTW

In a line array, the rate at which volume diminishes with distance is less than that of a conventional speaker system. Therefore, a line array projects sound with less drop off. The effect is similar to that of a flashlight with a focused beam.

[Pegleg]

Originally Posted by kramster

In the L1 Model 2 the speakers are not all aiming the same way (2 different ways) and the Compact even more directions... ut oh now what??

Ok, so we've got the sarcasm taken care of; is there an answer to my honest question? By the way, speaker direction apparently does not matter in regard to "line array" as the newer configurations curve the speakers so that the base speakers point downward. Or, so goes the description I read. I have read this point made in several threads (the SoloAmp is not true line array) and I could do the research and educate myself... or y'all could just enlighten me and save me the trouble? Thanks.

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by Pegleg

And why is a SoloAmp not "line array"? Based on the descriptions I've read, "line array" is simply a series of speakers aligned closely together in a vertical (normally) or horizontal line. Thanks in advance for an understanding.

The speakers in a line array must be very close together. I don't know if most of the SoloAmp's 6 speakers are mounted close enough but it has the tweeter placed between two of the 4-inch woofers. Thus, those two woofers are probably too far apart. Anyway, if the speakers are spaced properly, since there is only one tweeter, the line array would only be effective up to the crossover point which is 4,000 Hz. Any thing above that frequency would be radiated out in the same way as a conventional speaker system.

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by kramster

In the L1 Model 2 the speakers are not all aiming the same way (2 different ways) and the Compact even more directions... ut oh now what??

The L1 Model 2 and the L1 Compact both have their speakers mounted on two, alternating planes. I believe they both have the same angle between the planes.