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  #46  
Old 10-09-2008, 03:47 PM
alohachris alohachris is offline
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Default Mahalo For Everyone's Effort & ENergy in This SA Review!

Aloha all,

You guys are great! You can just feel the passion in each of you around this event, these products. Thanks to everyone who put it together. I truly wish I could have been there yesterday - not only for the A/B review - but just to meet and play with you guys and talk story about tone and sound. I could learn so much!

I felt like I got the gist of it all even being 4,000 miles away. Thanks!

You know it's interesting, the comment that got through to me most about this review was "wall of sound" when using two Soloamps. If you linked them in stereo, it be all the more, "WOW!"

You know what I'm going to say next so I'll restrain myself - Two speaker PA sources are ALWAYS better than one in every way - even in a small gig setting. It's worth the schelpp. Therefore, the real winners are those who will buy TWO Soloamps for so much less money than a single Bose ('nuff sed by me on that one too).

Hey, you can always take just one SA to your quietest gigs. But, you're ready with two SA's if you need more dispersion and power in a louder crowd setting. Just hook 'em up to a great preamp like a Pendulum SPS-1 and you're there! Unless Fishman can't get out those buzzes and hisses when you add devices to the SA, right?

And at 25 lbs., another SA is still easier to schlepp than a single Bose system or conventional PA setup.

Glad I was wrong in my pre-assessment of the Soloamp. I can't wait to hear one (or two) in a real bar setting.

Thanks again to all.

alohachris
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  #47  
Old 10-09-2008, 04:13 PM
MikeTX MikeTX is offline
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Default AloHA!

Hey Chris,

Brother, I just wish we could have held the session in YOUR neck of the woods! Island beach sounds SO good...

I do grant you - the tandem rig WAS a good sound, and it wasn't even set up or dialed in "right" - it was dual-mono, and as you suggest, true-stereo could be very interesting. I also have to say that I just have no desire to play that loud anymore (which would SHOCK lots of people who know me, 56 and been rockin' TOO LOUD since I was 11!). Volume-wise, and space-logistics-wise, places I play solo don't need two, and wouldn't have room for two. But it is a worthy concept, and a great way to implement dual-source and stereo.

Kinda my agreeing-to-disagree pitch there! :-) Sometime later, in a private chapter, I want you to edumacate me on your setup - particularly that preamp and those speakers. But I'm presently geared-out, probably for a month or two! And I have to wrap my mind around this Aura concept Joe B was telling me about...

I'm calling it a day!

Later - Mike

--- oh - the hiss DOES go away - you just have to engage the 10DB pad...

--- Jake - you'll be glad you did

--- John - missed you - good time

Last edited by MikeTX; 10-09-2008 at 04:19 PM.
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  #48  
Old 10-09-2008, 05:51 PM
alohachris alohachris is offline
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Default Aloha Mike!

Aloha Braddah Mike!

Hey, I think it's you who could edumacate me about sound systems, Mike. Thanks for all your energy here, brah! Musta been a lot of fun yesterday.

Mike, a dual source rig for me is not about power or loudness, it's about dispersion, clarity and room control. A stereo setup always works better for those elements, at least for me it does. Especially in controlling a given venue with an extended, stereo field. I don't play loudly at all - unless a crowd challenges me to do so. I do play with great clarity. My voice has its moments but is just okay. Certainly NOT a unique voice.

But, like we've agreed to before, it IS all about the music, not the s^%#boxes. I'm sure a coupla old-time giggers like us could teach each other a song or two, huh? Maybe even put on a cool harmony (I love singing harmonies, but ironically, usually play alone). I also love to play slide guitar (make my own rediussed glass slides from rare Hawaii bottles from old dumbs).

Recently, when not playing through my live rig myself, I've been renting it out to friends for their gigs and acting as their setup and soundman. It helps me better understand the capability and limitations of my rig in wildly varying venues and combos and styles.

It also helps me really dial in my Pendulum's parametric EQ and using combos of stereo, studio effects on my TC M2000. That's why you often see me saying here that I use effects to control rooms. It really works. But often, I don't use effects at all.

So I'm trying to learn more about this rig everyday. I use it seven nights a week these days. I just love the sound.

Gotta get back to work here, Mike. You're five hours ahead of me. All the best to you, my friend.

Mahalo & Malama pono i kakou!
alohachris
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  #49  
Old 10-09-2008, 06:47 PM
TekWorm TekWorm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlott00 View Post
i went ahead and took the plunge and ordered a soloamp, so i cant wait
+1

'Course I haven't played for coinage in 11yrs., so I "need it" 'bout as bad as a black-eye, but the "M123" deal caught me GAS'n with nobody 'round to shake some sense into me!

Like many others, I sincerely appreciate the time you lads put into this matchup.
So does my bank balance..LOL!
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  #50  
Old 10-09-2008, 11:15 PM
endpin endpin is offline
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Ok,

here

is some video of the dual SoloAmp demo (aka "wall of sound" - Phil Spector not withstanding). This one does not have the re-compression artifacts caused by YouTube.

Last edited by endpin; 10-09-2008 at 11:37 PM.
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  #51  
Old 10-10-2008, 04:44 AM
rmyAddison rmyAddison is offline
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Endpin,

Thanks, that was Mike playing Jay's 30 year old HD-28, definitely needed some EQ for quack but again we were in burn and churn mode and didn't have any fine tuning time.

Fun night...............thanks for the videos.
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  #52  
Old 10-10-2008, 08:54 AM
rmyAddison rmyAddison is offline
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John,

There were a thousand things we didn't get to, folks who are really curious are seriously best served by going somewhere and playing these systems and seeing for themselves. We could have spent days A/B'ing, this was a quick high level comparison nothing more.................

I believe most larger GC's will have both the Bose and Fishman and one personal demo is worth a million words on the forum.
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  #53  
Old 10-10-2008, 08:55 AM
Herb Hunter Herb Hunter is offline
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A properly set up stereo PA would have the amplified sound of the guitarist appear to be coming from where he was positioned on the stage. In other words, it would not seem that the sound was coming from the left and right position of the speakers. However that illusion, the reason stereo systems were developed, would only be apparent for a few members of the audience who happened to be in the narrow, shallow field of the stereophonic sound. That imaging would not be apparent to the majority. Again, this assumes that the PA was setup correctly. When was the last time you attended a performance were a stereophonic sound stage was evident, assuming you were seated or standing where one could reasonably expect the correctimaging could possibly occur?

With the Bose system, the entire audience would sense that the amplified sound was coming from the guitarist. If there were several performers and they each had a Bose column than theimaging of all the instruments would be accurate for the entire audience.
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  #54  
Old 10-10-2008, 09:55 AM
Side Man Side Man is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb Hunter View Post
A properly set up stereo PA would have the amplified sound of the guitarist appear to be coming from where he was positioned on the stage. In other words, it would not seem that the sound was coming from the left and right position of the speakers. However that illusion, the reason stereo systems were developed, would only be apparent for a few members of the audience who happened to be in the narrow, shallow field of the stereophonic sound. That imaging would not be apparent to the majority. Again, this assumes that the PA was setup correctly. When was the last time you attended a performance were a stereophonic sound stage was evident, assuming you were seated or standing where one could reasonably expect the correctimaging could possibly occur?

With the Bose system, the entire audience would sense that the amplified sound was coming from the guitarist. If there were several performers and they each had a Bose column than theimaging of all the instruments would be accurate for the entire audience.
Like my old history teacher used to say, "so what's this got to do with the price of tea in China?"... The Fishman SoloAmp is meant to be just that - a simple, lightweight, affordable means for acoustic musicians to amplify themselves in a small club setting. I never read anywhere where Fishman has attempted to market it as anything but.

As for the Bose systems and multiple musicians using them in a band context, lets talk reality here... Any band worth their salt would have a soundperson mixing them from out front because (in my experience) it's next to impossible to balance more than a couple of amplified players from the stage. You can't properly gauge what the couple at the corner table at the back of the room are hearing (they're probably ignoring the band anyway)... And at a couple of grand a pop, that's a sizable investment for any band. To quote Don Zimmer: "If 'ifs' and 'buts' were candy and nuts, we'd all have a hell of a Christmas"...
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  #55  
Old 10-10-2008, 10:13 AM
rmyAddison rmyAddison is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Side Man View Post
Like my old history teacher used to say, "so what's this got to do with the price of tea in China?"... The Fishman SoloAmp is meant to be just that - a simple, lightweight, affordable means for acoustic musicians to amplify themselves in a small club setting. I never read anywhere where Fishman has attempted to market it as anything but.

As for the Bose systems and multiple musicians using them in a band context, lets talk reality here... Any band worth their salt would have a soundperson mixing them from out front because (in my experience) it's next to impossible to balance more than a couple of amplified players from the stage. You can't properly gauge what the couple at the corner table at the back of the room are hearing (they're probably ignoring the band anyway)... And at a couple of grand a pop, that's a sizable investment for any band. To quote Don Zimmer: "If 'ifs' and 'buts' were candy and nuts, we'd all have a hell of a Christmas"...
Sideman is absolutely right about the Fishman's designed purpose, we heard it directly from the Fishman reps two night ago. This is why they say they are not in competition with Bose, who does offer that their system works for different instruments and in band situations.

I also agree about usage in larger venues and multiple players, PA's exist for a very good reason, but that is a different topic than the intent of this post.
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  #56  
Old 10-10-2008, 10:18 AM
MikeTX MikeTX is offline
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Hi Side Man,

MY band IS worth our salt, and we have successfully entertained hundreds of audiences over the last six years with our setup of one Bose L1 system per player, as it was intended. NO sound mixer man, thankyouverymuch.

Huffing and puffing aside, this IS a significantly different approach that takes a little mental and physical adjustment to, but it WORKS, and I would never go back.

I also agree with you, the new SoloAmp will work very well for solo performers, and a pair for a duo act will be a good sound too - all with really easy setup and takedown.

Fishman specifically does not compare it or compete directly with Bose. I can also tell you that my early experience is that it DOES "keep up with" the Bose, and I will probably even use mine with my band, as well as for solo shows.

Keeping a open and curious mind to this stuff has been a good thing for me.

Best luck,
Mike
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  #57  
Old 10-10-2008, 10:31 AM
Side Man Side Man is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeTX View Post
Hi Side Man,

MY band IS worth our salt, and we have successfully entertained hundreds of audiences over the last six years with our setup of one Bose L1 system per player, as it was intended. NO sound mixer man, thankyouverymuch.

Huffing and puffing aside, this IS a significantly different approach that takes a little mental and physical adjustment to, but it WORKS, and I would never go back.

I also agree with you, the new SoloAmp will work very well for solo performers, and a pair for a duo act will be a good sound too - all with really easy setup and takedown.

Fishman specifically does not compare it or compete directly with Bose. I can also tell you that my early experience is that it DOES "keep up with" the Bose, and I will probably even use mine with my band, as well as for solo shows.

Keeping a open and curious mind to this stuff has been a good thing for me.

Best luck,
Mike
Hi Mike,

Your band is of the rare breed indeed... A good friend (and excellent guitarist) was part of the Bose beta testing group several years back, when the original system was being road tested, prior to release to the general public. He found it to be excellent - when restraint was used by his fellow bandmates. Most groups don't have the self-discipline your band has.

Glad the Bose is working for you and that you're able to work with some talented bandmates!

The Side Man
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  #58  
Old 10-10-2008, 11:27 AM
MikeTX MikeTX is offline
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10-4 Side Man!

We find it to be a joy to play this way, and it's easy - just play loud enough to hear yourself, and the blend turns out to be just right.

I'm also an admitted consumer of the Bose Kool-Aid!

I now have to say that I feel like I'm cheating on dear sweet Mrs. Bose with the new hot babe Ms. Fishman...

Thanks for your reply!

Mike
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  #59  
Old 10-10-2008, 11:31 AM
kramster kramster is offline
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By any chance... just for the heck of it,,, did anyone try a keyboard through the SA?? (I know only a good mono piano sound would work cause of phasing issues which I got covered.) I don't play loud anywhere.
And thanks for the better sounding video Endpin... cool that there were a couple CA guitars in another video as I just bought 2. I have owned the Bose for about as long as they have been out and still love it, even better with the T1 tone mod, and now you guys got me going on some more new "toys".
Think I'll zip over to a GC right now and check it out.



Hmmmmm the Bose and Fishman together......
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  #60  
Old 10-10-2008, 11:41 AM
Side Man Side Man is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeTX View Post
I'm also an admitted consumer of the Bose Kool-Aid!

I now have to say that I feel like I'm cheating on dear sweet Mrs. Bose with the new hot babe Ms. Fishman...

Thanks for your reply!

Mike
I'll bet Mrs. Bose bakes some nice cookies to go along with that Kool-Aid!!! "Order a dozen now; Just 4 easy payments of only XXX per month. Operators are standing by..."

Oops - sorry - that's RONCO!.
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