Advice From Music Teachers on Best Way To Learn

[AusSi]

What do you guys think is the best way to learn the guitar?

I have been playing for a few years now but have to say the level of progress I have made over that time is pretty poor. I can play some nice songs in both finger picking style and chords, I have built up some strength in my hands sure and I have managed to tackle some of the more difficult cords and moving in and out of them quickly. But thats about it.

My process for learning guitar currently is to just pick a song, find the tabliture or a youtube video and go until i have it down. Then once that gets boring, which is pretty fast i move onto learning something else and so on. I heard that this is how Tommy Emmanuel learned to play but i have to assume at some point he took a different approach to become as good as he is.

Recently I have gained a lot of spare time and have really decided to dedicate most of it to learning guitar, however I find that my style of learning (playing songs from tabliture) is only fun for about 30 minutes a day and over the long haul, sure its great to play a song i learned to a friend but I feel it both really lacks any variety or any playful, fun and is not teaching me much core guitar stuff i can use anywhere.

I do have a guitar teacher, however i live in north thailand and I have to say though he is an amazing guitar player he is not a very good teacher. The first thing he had me do is learn the 7 modes and after a few weeks of mastering them I went back for another lesson and he said, oh i probably taught you modes much to early, lets learn the notes of the fret board.

Though i really did enjoy the challenge of both trying to remember the mode patterns and the gradual progression of getting better at them. Which makes me wonder what better more interesting ways there are to learn guitar. I am not suggesting i stop learning song by tabliture, I do love it at times, but i really think that I could improve a lot faster and find practice a lot more enjoyable if i threw in some other stuff.

So that is where i am stuck. What do I learn first and what do i move onto after that?

Should I learn music theory like how to read music?
Should I learn and memorise all the major scales?
Or learn and memorise all chords?
Do i learn pentatonic scales?
What the hell is a blues lick?
So on and so on.

Anyway, I know this was very long and I understand I am asking a lot, but i am pretty stuck and would really appreciate any help anyone can give.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers,
Si

[rick-slo]

For most fingerstyle players memorizing a bunch of scales and modes is not very useful, rather like Tommy says - learn songs, and learn them well, not just half baked. Learn songs you like to keep it interesting. Learn songs that have elements in them you do not currently do but would like to learn to do. Of course be realistic. Strive for improvement and challenges but have some sort of correlation between your current skill level and the music you are trying to play.

[AusSi]

Hey Rick, thank you for your reply. I much appreciate it and your absolutely right. Learning "Little Wing" by Hendrix is what got me into guitar in the first place. I learned a lot from mastering that song.

Finding the right song to learn is half the battle, I find if a song is too easy it gets boring, if a song is too difficult its frustrating and the lack of progress can be disappointing. How do you go about finding song to learn?

I was not aware that Tommy said that, it definitely reinforces my belief that learning new, challenging song is a big part of the learning process but I still feel like other elements can make learning more varied, fun and speed up progress.

The analogy that comes to mind is that today I was riding my bike to work, and I was thinking, hmmm I ride my bike to work every day, but I am not an excellent bike rider, how is it that with all those thousands of hours of bike riding I am still not really any better than when I started? It occurs to me that in order to get better at it I would need to change up what I am doing, ride up steep hills down off road tracks and so forth and then when i come back to my usual ride to work, I would be a more proficient rider ready for anything the road throws at me.

I understand that this is an imperfect analogy, however I can relate it to how I feel about playing the same songs each day just so that I can remember all the ones I have learned over the years.

Sorry to ramble on so much, in my head the analogy was more convincing.

Si

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by AusSi

My process for learning guitar currently is to just pick a song, find the tabliture or a youtube video and go until i have it down. Then once that gets boring, which is pretty fast i move onto learning something else and so on. I heard that this is how Tommy Emmanuel learned to play but i have to assume at some point he took a different approach to become as good as he is.]

My guess is he just didn't get bored.

Originally Posted by AusSi

Recently I have gained a lot of spare time and have really decided to dedicate most of it to learning guitar, however I find that my style of learning (playing songs from tabliture) is only fun for about 30 minutes a day and over the long haul, sure its great to play a song i learned to a friend but I feel it both really lacks any variety or any playful, fun and is not teaching me much core guitar stuff i can use anywhere.

You need to make some kind of personal connection with it. You're too detached.
You're mastering a song as a mechanical challenge, so it's satistfing when achieved; but - once mastered - there seems to be nowhere else to go. Other than on to the next song....

You have to be able to find some kind of self-expression in what you play. Two things:
1. Do you sing?
2. Do you compose?
Of course, not every guitar player can (or needs to) do either, but if the guitar-playing alone is not satisfying (except in the short term), then something like that is missing.

If you're not at all confident about either singing or writing, then a kind of half-way approach is improvisation: take one of those tunes you've learned and adapt it. Don't just slavishly follow the tab; try and think of other ways it might go, at certain points. Maybe start by playing it a lot slower (I mean a lot). Feel your way into it more deeply - make it your own. (Forget whoever played it originally.)
You have to make that kind of internal connection with it.
IOW, you're not just a messenger communicating someone else's message (the person who wrote or played the original); you have an opinion about that message yourself, and you need to express that as well.
Eventually, the more confident you get, the more you'll just throw away the original message, because you know **** well that you can say it much better. Then you're a composer!

Originally Posted by AusSi

I do have a guitar teacher, however i live in north thailand and I have to say though he is an amazing guitar player he is not a very good teacher. The first thing he had me do is learn the 7 modes and after a few weeks of mastering them I went back for another lesson and he said, oh i probably taught you modes much to early, lets learn the notes of the fret board.

LOL - yes, not a very good teacher!

Originally Posted by AusSi

Should I learn music theory like how to read music?

Yes, because it will expand the amount of material available to you to learn. You won't be stuck with guitar music. You'll be able to read vocal lines, or piano music, or anything.

Originally Posted by AusSi

Should I learn and memorise all the major scales?

I think you should familiar with the common guitar keys: the scales of C, G, D, A and E major. And also the chords that belong in each key.
Likewise the most common minor keys: A minor, E minor, D minor.

You can pick up this knowledge simply from studying the songs you already know (this is how most of the great pop/rock songwriters learned their craft). Look at what chords go together in each song. Identify the key chord, and how the others relate.

Originally Posted by AusSi

Or learn and memorise all chords?

As many as you can, yes, but make sure you understand the link with keys.
Types of chord change are probably more useful to memorise than 100s of different individual chord types.
IOW, it's the practical musical usage of these things that matters, not amassing a whole library of details. That's why working from songs (not just learning them but analysing them, taking them apart) is so important.
In an analogy with language, it's more useful to learn phrases and how to put sentences together than it is to compile a dictionary of words alone.

Originally Posted by AusSi

Do i learn pentatonic scales?

Yes, as links between chords and scales. (Eg, major chord = 3 notes; major pent = 5 notes; major scale = 7 notes.) Useful for improvisation.

Originally Posted by AusSi

What the hell is a blues lick?

The kind of phrase you often hear blues guitarists play. The more blues you listen to, the more you'll hear the same kinds of phrases cropping up. Those are "licks".

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by AusSi

…What do I learn first and what do i move onto after that?
…Anyway, I know this was very long and I understand I am asking a lot, but i am pretty stuck and would really appreciate any help anyone can give.

Hi Si...

The best thing that happens to my music is when it's shared with others. I play in a worship group in a church, in an acoustic duo with a gigging partner of more than 10 years, with friends around the community, and solo at our monthly Guitar Society meetings.

These give me incentive to learn and then improve my arrangements with specific goals in mind, and share the music with others makes me want to share more.

For me, music kept in the privacy of my living room soon grows dull. Sharing it with others gives it purpose…and me as well.

One of the biggest steps for students is creating, practicing and performing duets in public with them to get them out of their practice rooms.

[Toby Walker]

Hi Si,

I agree that learning songs can be a good approach especially if they hold your interest. I would add that it would also be beneficial to learn the basics as well and see how that applies to the song your currently learning.

For instance, let's say your learning Peaceful Easy Feeling by the Eagles. Get out a book on music theory for the guitar and find out what key the song is in. Then try and learn alternate ways of playing the chords up and down the neck. While you're doing that you wind up starting to learn some if the notes on the fingerboard. Get another book on fingerpicking and learn some patterns that you can apply to the song.

You get the idea? By learning just one song you can increase your theoretical knowledge as well as learning new techniques. That's one way of complete understanding a song.

[AusSi]

Firstly, thank you guys all SOOOOO much for your generous replies. This has given me more insight that i ever though I could get. You all have different yet totally understandable points, that now that I have heard them, I cant see why I never saw them in the first place.

Toby, I will discuss this learning approach with my teacher and see if he cant guide me in this direction. I really like the idea of combining the two, I think adding the music theory aspect to songs will make them more interesting and hold my attention for longer. Great advice and thank you.

LJ, your spot on in assuming I never share my music with anyone, but I do see clearly now how important that is, I am able to relate it to other elements of my life. I think I always thought that I need to get better before I can play with others, other musicians I have met seem so confident in their abilities and I assume that is because they practiced a lot. I think its actually that they all share their talent with others and that has given them the confidence. Thank you for that insight, it sounds like you have a pretty good environment setup in your community that is conducive to your improvement, I need to work on that. I actually just discovered last night a guitarist is moving in next door, could be a good opportunity if I can man up .

Jon, thank you so much for putting in the time to do such a detailed response, I really appreciate it. I feel like you really hit the nail on the head with the making a connection to the music, I really love the idea of doing this, it makes a lot of sense to me and i think it is probably one of the major missing links to my playing, being detached from the music really hit home for me.

I found some videos today on music theory, major scales and pentatonic scales that were recommend by another AGF member, they look quite good and I will take then in slowly on your advice.

So thank you again guys, I have honestly been made aware of a side of guitar that though I just somehow knew was there, I had blocked it from my learning... yeah i think that made sense.

I am sure this will be insightful and education to many other than just me also, I hear a lot of people in forums and in person with similar struggles in learning guitar as there are just so many ways about it and with with just enthusiasm and not the right direction people often seem to end up frustrated.

Cheers,
Si

[AusSi]

Just thought I would let you guys know I had a guitar lesson yesterday, I showed up 15 minutes early and had a chance to chat with my teacher about everything you guys said. As a result I had an awesome lesson, I think it really gave him the construct on how to teach me.
I am now learning cords, how they are constructed and I am pulling apart songs, next session I am going to learn the relationship between chords. Pretty stoked to be on track and enjoying my learning material so quickly.

You guys are the best

Si

[Toby Walker]

Originally Posted by AusSi

Just thought I would let you guys know I had a guitar lesson yesterday, I showed up 15 minutes early and had a chance to chat with my teacher about everything you guys said. As a result I had an awesome lesson, I think it really gave him the construct on how to teach me.
I am now learning cords, how they are constructed and I am pulling apart songs, next session I am going to learn the relationship between chords. Pretty stoked to be on track and enjoying my learning material so quickly.

You guys are the best

Si

I'm sure I speak for everyone else when I say how pleased we all are that your lesson went so well

[AusSi]

Thank you very much Toby, that means a lot to me.