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  #61  
Old 02-14-2017, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by TomB'sox View Post
That is also quite a different technique with the end blocks I believe. I have not seen them being glued to the top first, rather most seem to glue them to the rim assembly and then to the top when the top is mated to the rims...hmmm as Artie Johnson use to say hmmmm veeerrry interesting.
Bruce builds without the use of molds (in the air). The two blocks are adhered to the top before the rims are bent. The rims are bent without the aid of molds. He also uses individual Spruce peone to create his top linings vs. a continuous kerfed Spanish Cedar or Mahogany linings. Look over a few of his build threads and it will become clear.
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  #62  
Old 02-14-2017, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7 View Post
Bruce builds without the use of molds (in the air). The two blocks are adhered to the top before the rims are bent. The rims are bent without the aid of molds. He also uses individual Spruce peone to create his top linings vs. a continuous kerfed Spanish Cedar or Mahogany linings. Look over a few of his build threads and it will become clear.
Sure, I had forgotten he does not use molds. I follow all his build threads. I knew about the peone linings as well. I had just not seen a photo of the end blocks glued to the top before. Now as you mentioned no molds, I suppose those end blocks give him an anchor when working with the rims.
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  #63  
Old 02-14-2017, 04:53 PM
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Sure, I had forgotten he does not use molds. I follow all his build threads. I knew about the peone linings as well. I had just not seen a photo of the end blocks glued to the top before. Now as you mentioned no molds, I suppose those end blocks give him an anchor when working with the rims.
Sure Tom...

Here are my '014 and '015 Sexauers on Bruce's bench glued to the end blocks with the sides bent ready for linings.

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  #64  
Old 02-14-2017, 07:03 PM
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Bruce, I would just like to clarify, if you would be so kind, as to why the tapers are different...

I am in the process of starting my first (well under the radar) build, and this tapered back strip melding into the end graft is a feature which I had figured into it , thinking I was being innovative, but I see I am 15 years away from being innovative...

The way I am constructing the back strip/end graft mating is to glue up the tapered strip initially overlength, ie the length of the back plus the height of the end bout, then glue up the two back halves with the center strip in between, which I assume is how you do it as well, and cut off the surplus to form the end graft. The angle will then remain the same ...obviously it requires precise measurement and cutting to get the widths at the "mating points" spot- on, and the width of the binding plays a part as well.

But as far as I can see the angle of the taper should remain the same , no ?
I favor the Martin proportioned graft. Were it continued it wold only go a few more inches before it vanished, and I need 20" more. So, to have the taper be the continuous, I'd either have to make the graft very wide or the taper very shallow. I use 2 tapers that cause their purflings to meet in the binding somewhere.

I inlay my back strip into a joined back. Otherwise, if they were were part of the glue-up, the back strip would have to be machined with 2 absolutely straight non-parallel edges, and I have no easy idea how to do that. Instead, I inlay the back strip imperfectly, and then inlay the purflings in individual channels which I can machine very accurately.
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  #65  
Old 02-14-2017, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by TomB'sox View Post
Sure, I had forgotten he does not use molds. I follow all his build threads. I knew about the peone linings as well. I had just not seen a photo of the end blocks glued to the top before. Now as you mentioned no molds, I suppose those end blocks give him an anchor when working with the rims.
At this point the sides are bent, and I have glued in the third block which supports the cutaway join. Although it is called a cutaway, it is actually the first part of the sides I install, and here you can see that happening.



I find this building system so easy to do, and then there's the fact that it gives me more control over the design (one size or shape is as easy as another) and many other aspects of the outcome, it is surprising that more observers have not been inspired to adopt this method. Did i mention that it is also much quicker and requires almost no fixturing?
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  #66  
Old 02-14-2017, 10:20 PM
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It appears that third block is considerably taller than the sides - I'm sure there's a reason, but it's not clear to me -
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  #67  
Old 02-15-2017, 01:52 PM
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Two? You may know something I don't, yet.
I guess I am psychic, but that wasn't a prophecy, just a mistake. Just one guitar going to Dream Guitars. For now.
  #68  
Old 02-15-2017, 04:49 PM
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Bruce, how do you build the top arch in? I am guessing cut a 1.5ish degree angle into the blocks so they are vertical in the workboard (which I assume is arched). But then there are the sides, you don't have the luxury of using a dish on those before gluing the top.
  #69  
Old 02-15-2017, 06:42 PM
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Bruce, how do you build the top arch in? I am guessing cut a 1.5ish degree angle into the blocks so they are vertical in the workboard (which I assume is arched). But then there are the sides, you don't have the luxury of using a dish on those before gluing the top.
It is probably simpler than you think. The workboard IS the dish. The sides only need contact the dish at three points, the ends (where they glue to the blocks) and the waist, the deepest part of the workboard/dish being used. I calculate this depth (put a straight-edge across the dish and measure the gap where the waist will be and subtract a hair) and then set the jointer up to make that depth of cut from both ends, making sure to stop a couple of inches before the waist point. There is no reason for the sides to actually fit the top as the peone make the connection, and the "gap" gets cut away in the binding ledge routing anyway. I use a very shallow dish, so on a wider guitar like this the jointer cut is only 3/64" or so. The goal is for the side to be plumb: perpendicular to the plane of the top, as if there were such a thing.

I actually make the peone 1.25 degrees over square, but your guess is very close.

Here is a picture, but you'll have to look carefully to see the relief cut into the sides either side (the waist is the center, so above and below as pictured) of the waist:

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  #70  
Old 02-15-2017, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer View Post
... I find this building system so easy to do, and then there's the fact that it gives me more control over the design (one size or shape is as easy as another) and many other aspects of the outcome, it is surprising that more observers have not been inspired to adopt this method. Did i mention that it is also much quicker and requires almost no fixturing?
I am one of the inspired. Other than the first set of guitar bodies I built with a outside mold I have been using the same method to do the basic box. Although I have been bending mostly on forms with a blanket I have also bent a few on a pipe. I showed my sister a partly built box (for her son in law) and she saw the tentalones and exclaimed they are like her tiles. She is a mosaic artist and she related to it in realizing it must take a while to place all of them, something I find relaxing.

I see the way Bruce builds as an extension of how instruments were built previous to modern factory techniques. Other than using a dovetail joint (of violin heritage) the the way he builds the guitars is not very different than classical guitars that were built with Spanish Heel construction. Other than a router and I am guessing a drum sander (can't remember if Bruce has one, don't think he mentioned it in the Custom Shop) I don't think he builds much different than what would have been done 150 years ago. Oh almost forgot, he does use a table saw to do his fret slots, he has come up with a unique jig to do his slots.
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  #71  
Old 02-15-2017, 07:13 PM
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I am one of the inspired. Other than the first set of guitar bodies I built with a outside mold I have been using the same method to do the basic box. Although I have been bending mostly on forms with a blanket I have also bent a few on a pipe. I showed my sister a partly built box (for her son in law) and she saw the tentalones and exclaimed they are like her tiles. She is a mosaic artist and she related to it in realizing it must take a while to place all of them, something I find relaxing.

I see the way Bruce builds as an extension of how instruments were built previous to modern factory techniques. Other than using a dovetail joint (of violin heritage) the the way he builds the guitars is not very different than classical guitars that were built with Spanish Heel construction. Other than a router and I am guessing a drum sander (can't remember if Bruce has one, don't think he mentioned it in the Custom Shop) I don't think he builds much different than what would have been done 150 years ago. Oh almost forgot, he does use a table saw to do his fret slots, he has come up with a unique jig to do his slots.
Yes, I build entirely without out power tools . . . except for 8 routers and a pin router, a table saw, 2 bandsaws, three stationary sanders plus a double drum thickness sander, a jointer, a planer. and neither last nor least, an assortment of battery powered screwdrivers.

I do consider my table saw fretting system to be my single cleverest lutherie related development. If more people would take up lutherie, I could likly make a living selling it. That's not going to happen, but if anyone wants one, I do have extras of the critical part available for a modest fee.

Here are two shots of what I am now calling the Tad-block, first cut to length, and then shaped. The clamps are securing the last piece of side mitered to the first piece.



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  #72  
Old 02-15-2017, 08:50 PM
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Yes, I build entirely without out power tools . . . except for 8 routers and a pin router, a table saw, 2 bandsaws, three stationary sanders plus a double drum thickness sander, a jointer, a planer. and neither last nor least, an assortment of battery powered screwdrivers.

I do consider my table saw fretting system to be my single cleverest lutherie related development. If more people would take up lutherie, I could likly make a living selling it. That's not going to happen, but if anyone wants one, I do have extras of the critical part available for a modest fee.

Here are two shots of what I am now calling the Tad-block, first cut to length, and then shaped. The clamps are securing the last piece of side mitered to the first piece.



Actually wanted to highlight more your assembly method rather than tools and that you could build as good a guitar without jigs and such. But as you mentioned it I do recall you having two bandsaws, never meant to imply you resaw your wood with a frame saw.

Reminds me of when I once asked my mother about a recipe and it did not quite come out like when see made it. In the end it was different because I did not add cream. She said, 'well off course you add cream,' as if using it would be understood. I never even thought to mention a bandsaw because I can't imagine not using one. I don't recall reading or seeing any pictures of your pin router. Maybe in an upcoming build you could include a picture of it being used?
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  #73  
Old 02-16-2017, 09:58 AM
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Thanks Bruce, that makes sense.
  #74  
Old 02-16-2017, 10:35 AM
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Actually wanted to highlight more your assembly method rather than tools and that you could build as good a guitar without jigs and such. But as you mentioned it I do recall you having two bandsaws, never meant to imply you resaw your wood with a frame saw.

Reminds me of when I once asked my mother about a recipe and it did not quite come out like when see made it. In the end it was different because I did not add cream. She said, 'well off course you add cream,' as if using it would be understood. I never even thought to mention a bandsaw because I can't imagine not using one. I don't recall reading or seeing any pictures of your pin router. Maybe in an upcoming build you could include a picture of it being used?

Gee Whiz, Fred, I was trying to be funny! Forgot to use an emoticon

My own mother had a state fair blue ribbon winning cake I always asked for on my birthday, and when I had left home I asked for the recipe. I then made the cake and it was a complete failure. I asked her for clarification and it turned out she has assumed the sugar which like your own experience, didn't work out well.

I only have an Onsrud pin router because for a few years I had a side business making 2 dimensional mannequins from FinPly. I sold that business to another luthier many years ago but kept the pin router. At this point the only thing I use it for is cutting out pick guards!
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  #75  
Old 02-16-2017, 11:54 AM
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By the end of today I expect to have the back on the JB-15 I am making for Dream Guitars. There is a bit of uncertainty as I have to get to Lafayette about 50 miles away and pick up the three guitars that have been languishing in the guitar shop over there, and traffic is generally terrible along any route between us.

Meanwhile, I did get the side reinforcement ribbons in this morning, and here is a picture of the current state:

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