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  #76  
Old 04-01-2011, 03:31 PM
Rick Shepherd Rick Shepherd is offline
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Additional comments:

In your YouTube video, Your guitar and vocals sound very mismatched. The guitar sounds very bright and harsh to me, while your voice has too much reverb, and is a bit muddy. Your voice is good, I wouldn't say great, but there is room for improvement. Because you have a deep voice, you need more low tones from the guitar to have a good balance between the two. The problem I hear is not you specifically, but the equipment and/or room sound, and then compounded by the fact that you are using a recording device that amplifies, and maybe distorts a problematic sound even more. This is why I want to hear a raw sound of you without all that.

I find that recording myself really helps me to hear myself as other do, which also helps if you plan on going into a studio to record.

Sorry about the duplicate, edited posts, but I really want to help you if I can.

regards, Rick

Last edited by Rick Shepherd; 04-01-2011 at 03:51 PM.
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  #77  
Old 04-01-2011, 06:11 PM
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Well, gentlemen,
I'd like to say that this Thread is very interesting (at least to me), I just found it and spent may be hours or so reading every post!

Just want to say "THANKS" to everyone who got involved here and especially the author of this thread.

Even if I'm not able to offer any help to him at all because I know so much less than everyone here, but it's such an eyes-opener for me and I got a feeling that it will make me a better YT uploader in the future

P.S. I also PMed Rick S about this matter
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  #78  
Old 04-01-2011, 06:35 PM
knuckle knuckle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Shepherd View Post
Additional comments:

In your YouTube video, Your guitar and vocals sound very mismatched. The guitar sounds very bright and harsh to me, while your voice has too much reverb, and is a bit muddy. Your voice is good, I wouldn't say great, but there is room for improvement. Because you have a deep voice, you need more low tones from the guitar to have a good balance between the two. The problem I hear is not you specifically, but the equipment and/or room sound, and then compounded by the fact that you are using a recording device that amplifies, and maybe distorts a problematic sound even more. This is why I want to hear a raw sound of you without all that.

I find that recording myself really helps me to hear myself as other do, which also helps if you plan on going into a studio to record.

Sorry about the duplicate, edited posts, but I really want to help you if I can.

regards, Rick
Thanks Rick and anyone else contributing to this. This is wonderful. I feel like I should pay you guys

My main guitar is a CA / OX with a dual source K+K (SBT + K+K mic) > stereo jack > blending preamp (DTAR solstice) I usually do 12:00 on the internal mic and 10:00 on the SBT. I usually set the bass to about 10:00 on both the SBT+mic, mid at 9:00 and high at 9:00. The amp I have the bass @ 10:00, low mid at 12:00 gain 12:00, high mid 12:00, gain 12:00, and high at 1:00

One of the problems is I don't know how to properly setup my amp. It's got 4 separate EQ stages.
LOW Low mid frequency and gain high mid frequency and gain and high.
I'm not sure what frequency to set the amp settings at. Plus I'm using a DTAR solstice as well, XLR out > XLR in on channel 1 of the amp.
It's a stereo amp and one thing I started doing was panning channel 1 of the amp to the left (guitar) and channel 2 of the amp to the right (vocals)

I usually have the preamp at about 11:00 master out and 9:00 gain on the xlr input on the Genz benz. I'm not even sure if this is the best way to setup this whole thing. 2 preamps essentially?

Don't know if you can see the settings.
Low, Low mid 100hz - 1.8khz and +/- 15 gain , high mid 350hz-5khz and +/- 15 gain and then high.

Plus Low / Mid / High on my Solstice.

I'm actually getting rid of this amp on Craigslist and I'm getting a PA instead. I thought this was going to do the job at shows. I thought this thing was the Cadillac of acoustic amps. But it's probably mostly because I don't know what I'm doing. But I'm getting larger and larger stuff to play at and need a PA really.

I spend almost 2500 on equipment and I can't make it sound good. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, if it's the basement or just my brain, or the fact that I'm using a frign ipod. To my ears it sounds mint when I'm playing. I can even manage to stand in front of the GB and the AG60 which I use as a monitor and there's not too much bass, everything else is balanced. I'd redo the thing again without reverb but I got laryngitis for the first time in my life. It's brutal. I can't even talk


Last edited by knuckle; 04-01-2011 at 06:43 PM.
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  #79  
Old 04-01-2011, 07:21 PM
ferg ferg is offline
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Here's the question...

You say it sounds mint to you when you're playing. Does the recording sound mint to you? If the answer is "no", then the problem more than likely is more closely related to the way the recording is made than the equipment you are using to amplify yourself, and that's not going to be fixed by switching to a PA system. That's not to say you wouldn't be better off with a PA for live performances, but since the original discussion was about the recording, I figured I throw that in there.

I really think it's worth taking a run at finding a relatively inexpensive way to get better audio on the recording, or, perhaps better (for now), do an audio-only recording, and see how things sound from there.
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  #80  
Old 04-01-2011, 07:24 PM
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Doug Young Doug Young is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenbird View Post
Doug, do you use the built in Zoom H4 mics? Or do you use something "better"?
I've done both, and I don't always recall which was which. The H4n with built-in mics are perfectly fine, tho. If I use external mics, I have more flexibility, like using spaced pairs, which you can't do with the H4's XY mics. I know the Taylor Bari 8 video I made was done with the H4 mics+the pickup into one of the extra channels.
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  #81  
Old 04-01-2011, 07:28 PM
Neal Neal is offline
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I would consider the source.... Sony? Yeesh..
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  #82  
Old 04-01-2011, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knuckle View Post
One of the problems is I don't know how to properly setup my amp. It's got 4 separate EQ stages.
I'd vote for setting everything flat to start with. That ought to sound pretty darn good, actually. Then tweak a bit to taste, *if* needed. One problem that seems to come up a lot is trying to use too much effects, too much EQ, compression, reverb, etc. It's like a meal - yes, there's salt on the table, but you shouldn't have to dump the entire shaker out on your plate to have the food taste good.

Quote:
To my ears it sounds mint when I'm playing.
I believe Fran comented on this - our ears tend to both hear things differently than the mic and are also more forgiving. We have the ability to tune stuff out, and discount the room sound. Trying playing/recording in the bathroom sometime - you'll think it sounds great in person, the recording will be awful.
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  #83  
Old 04-01-2011, 07:44 PM
knuckle knuckle is offline
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Ok, here goes. Almost no reverb on the guitar. Zero reverb on the vocals. Ipod moved up about 5' away.

Now be warned. I can barely talk (laryngitis) and should not be singing, but I'm dying to figure this out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeBRv...el_video_title

I got another one in a minute, just me, no amp 3' away
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  #84  
Old 04-01-2011, 07:48 PM
knuckle knuckle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferg View Post
Here's the question...

You say it sounds mint to you when you're playing. Does the recording sound mint to you? If the answer is "no", then the problem more than likely is more closely related to the way the recording is made than the equipment you are using to amplify yourself, and that's not going to be fixed by switching to a PA system. That's not to say you wouldn't be better off with a PA for live performances, but since the original discussion was about the recording, I figured I throw that in there.

I really think it's worth taking a run at finding a relatively inexpensive way to get better audio on the recording, or, perhaps better (for now), do an audio-only recording, and see how things sound from there.
Yeah I realize the PA is a separate discussion, didn't mean to derail. I'm not really happy at all with the recordings. But like I said earlier by intent was to get ideas about the song, not the audio. But this guy who rattled my chain basically got me thinking that maybe I'm doing myself a dis-service by releasing sub par audio. I don't know but I would like to get 1/2 decent recordings. I tend to think the room sucks as well as the reverb muddying things up and the ipod as well as a not so ideal recording device. Don't guys usually add in reverb after anyhow when they mix?
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  #85  
Old 04-01-2011, 07:49 PM
knuckle knuckle is offline
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No amp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPCPa...el_video_title
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  #86  
Old 04-01-2011, 08:57 PM
ferg ferg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knuckle View Post
Dude...

Where you have the camera positioned, the mix is a bit off...the guitar is too loud. That being said...your voice, to my ears, sounds significantly better than on the other recordings. I think if you could improve your recording device (mic or watever), mic or whatever and position it a little higher your recording quality would be better.

Honestly - it makes sense if you think about it. Nobody goes into the studio and records their vocals or acoustic guitar by playing or singing through an amp and micing that (which is what you're doing).
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  #87  
Old 04-01-2011, 09:04 PM
knuckle knuckle is offline
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Makes sense. I've only been at a studio once. If you could call it that. Guys house who offered to record me for a day. No amps, just 1 mic on guitar 1 mic on vocals to the board and through the monitor speakers.

What about the amplified version with no reverb on the vocals? Does that sound better? I always figured reverb on the vocals sounds better, but perhaps not with a live recording?

Anyhow it's a pointless discussion really. I'm using an ipod and I'll be using that for months till I have some money freed up to spend on music stuff. I think the moral of this story is the ipod sucks as a recording device and less reverb on the vocals and some room treatment might help.
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  #88  
Old 04-01-2011, 09:09 PM
ferg ferg is offline
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I think the reverbless amplified recording sounded marginally better than the others, to my ears. I think the amplification is there to provide volume for an audience...if you're recording, it just introduces problems (talking about acoustic instruments of course).
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  #89  
Old 04-01-2011, 11:25 PM
geokie8 geokie8 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knuckle View Post
I think the moral of this story is the ipod sucks as a recording device and less reverb on the vocals and some room treatment might help.
I think those are three valid conclusions. . . and I agree that the vocals are better without the reverb. The more natural the reverberation in the room, the less need to add it artificially. Once you treat the room, you may want to sweeten a bit. In the meantime, if you like the sound of reverb, you might try dialing in just a little and as soon as you can hear it clearly, dial it back a bit.

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  #90  
Old 04-02-2011, 07:23 AM
Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
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Ferg's spot on. On this link: Originally Posted by knuckle
No amp http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPCPa...el_video_title

You are obviously playing too loud and/or singing to softly. The fact that you can't hear this leads me to believe that you really need to work on developing that sense. I see/hear it live at our song circles here when people who don't often play out present a song. They get lost in the moment, enter an altered state and overplay their guitar so the vocals are lost.

You have to get past that and get to a point where you are aware of both your guitar and vocal levels. Most of us have been there. Some of still are.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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