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  #1  
Old 04-06-2011, 01:11 AM
MattChen MattChen is offline
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Default Delay Settings

I use the delay from logic to add a bit of thickness to my vocals but I find it really quickly makes the sound too echoey.

I think I can fix this if there is a setting that makes the echoes closer/tighter together and shorter in length overall... are there settings that adjust that? Kinda like attack and release for compression.
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Old 04-06-2011, 08:43 AM
KevWind KevWind is offline
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I do not use logic but there should be some delay time, feedback and mix percent, controls all of which can be adjusted to less... But ,Are you putting the Delay on a separate AUX track ? if not try this first. Route the output of the track to the regular main stereo audio mix outputs ( this gives you the dry signal going to the mix) But From the "sends" section of the track you want delay on .. send the audio signal to the new Aux track. set the send volume (if you have that adj.) At (0 db) 0r unity gain... Then just decrease the output volume of the aux track until you like the sound ... What you get this way is both a dry signal and a wet signal going to the mix.... Same with reverb.
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Old 04-06-2011, 10:44 PM
MattChen MattChen is offline
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cool, thanks, will try it out.
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Old 04-07-2011, 05:49 AM
KevWind KevWind is offline
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oops forgot tom mention (maybe you figured it out) put the delay (or reverb) on the AUX track not the audio track. Kev
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Old 04-07-2011, 11:42 AM
MattChen MattChen is offline
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in logic (I hope you are using logic) there are a few send buttons a bit more toward the bottom that bring up settings for plugins parallel (to the right) of the main channel... is this the aux? And there's a dial that adjusts the volume of the settings in that channel.
It affects the same track (instead of creating a separate track) and it sounds different than when I put reverb on the "main" channel so I think I am doing it right. Even when I use a lot of reverb and make that channel a lot louder it seems my vocals are still more present than before... I suppose cause there is a completely dry part in the mix?

I'm I doing this right? Thanks,

Matt
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Old 04-07-2011, 01:17 PM
KevWind KevWind is offline
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I don't use logic I use pro tools However there should be enough similarity

First , an AUX track is a separate track ....lets put this in context This technique is in the mixing stage. After you have say an audio track of a vocal (with no effects on it) In any case the idea of using an Aux track is to get the effect off the audio track and place it instead on a separate track. (I'm sure logic has an area where you can create Tracks,) if it has the ability to create different types of tracks then select a stereo Aux track. If not just create an additional stereo audio track. We willl call this new track, the "effects track". Either way you then will send the vocal signal using the send section of the vocal track thru a BUS to the effects track .

The reason to have a completely separate channel for the effect is because you will then have both a dry signal track (the original vocal track no effects) going directly to the mix And a wet signal track (with effect ) getting the vocal via the send/ bus/ also going directly to the mix. having both gives you the ability blend the dry and wet.

So from the send section of the vocal track you should have a drop down with Bus as a selection choose a stereo Bus say 1-2.. Then in the input section on the Effects track select Bus and choose 1-2... This routes the dry vocal signal to the track that has the effect on it .

Then what you hear is the full effect which from your OP was to much.. So just start lowering the volume of the Effects track until you like the blended sound.

Hope this is a bit clearer
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Last edited by KevWind; 04-07-2011 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 04-08-2011, 05:03 AM
MattChen MattChen is offline
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hhmmmm, I feel like I am doing it right but without using the same platform as you I suppose it's hard to confirm.

Basically if I am recording a track (referred by logic as "input 1") and have it highlighted, the plugins menu is on the far left side and is under a heading called "inserts". Just below this heading and any plugins you add is another heading called "sends"; which you can add bus 1 or bus 2, etc. When you click on one of these buses it goes into an identically structured menu vertically parallel to "input 1", only it's called "bus 1". On here I can add delay, and then reverb on bus 2....and I am able to adjust the volume of these individual buses which seems to affect the intensity of the effect.

Am I doing this right? It seems like I am as the effects no longer sound the same even though I am using the same reverb/delay settings; I assume it's because I have a dry signal in the mix now?

So one, am I doing this right, and two what is the benefit of doing this? Is it always better to do this (i.e. every time)?

And one more thing, what do you mean by OP?

Thanks so much for all your help.
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Old 04-08-2011, 06:59 AM
Joseph Hanna Joseph Hanna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattChen View Post
hhmmmm, I feel like I am doing it right but without using the same platform as you I suppose it's hard to confirm.

Basically if I am recording a track (referred by logic as "input 1") and have it highlighted, the plugins menu is on the far left side and is under a heading called "inserts". Just below this heading and any plugins you add is another heading called "sends"; which you can add bus 1 or bus 2, etc. When you click on one of these buses it goes into an identically structured menu vertically parallel to "input 1", only it's called "bus 1". On here I can add delay, and then reverb on bus 2....and I am able to adjust the volume of these individual buses which seems to affect the intensity of the effect.

Am I doing this right? It seems like I am as the effects no longer sound the same even though I am using the same reverb/delay settings; I assume it's because I have a dry signal in the mix now?

So one, am I doing this right, and two what is the benefit of doing this? Is it always better to do this (i.e. every time)?

And one more thing, what do you mean by OP?

Thanks so much for all your help.
Pro Tools and Logic's Aux send and return structure (which is what is being discussed here) are nearly identical. The first noticeable difference is in Logic if you click on the send section of an individual audio track it automatically creates an Aux channel for you.

So that is to say if you have only ONE audio track in a Logic session and you want to add reverb via an aux send and return scheme you'd click on the send section of the audio track and suddenly you'd have two channels. It's automatic (both the creation of the channel and the routing) in Logic and not in Pro Tools. Now you have the original audio track and a new Aux return channel.

You'd then instantiate a reverb on the new Aux return channel. The final step is via the original audio track which will now have a send level control. This send level control will dictate how much signal is bussed over to the reverb which is living on the new Aux return channel.

It's important to note here that as the session grows any or all of the other tracks can share that reverb.
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Old 04-08-2011, 07:48 AM
KevWind KevWind is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattChen View Post
hhmmmm, I feel like I am doing it right but without using the same platform as you I suppose it's hard to confirm.

Basically if I am recording a track (referred by logic as "input 1") and have it highlighted, the plugins menu is on the far left side and is under a heading called "inserts". Just below this heading and any plugins you add is another heading called "sends"; which you can add bus 1 or bus 2, etc. When you click on one of these buses it goes into an identically structured menu vertically parallel to "input 1", only it's called "bus 1". On here I can add delay, and then reverb on bus 2....and I am able to adjust the volume of these individual buses which seems to affect the intensity of the effect.
It sounds like you have got it . (perhaps someone who is using Logic can comment ). My guess is what's happening is, Logic is automatically creating an Auxiliary track or Aux track when you make the Bus selection.
Quote:
Am I doing this right? It seems like I am as the effects no longer sound the same even though I am using the same reverb/delay settings; I assume it's because I have a dry signal in the mix now?

So one, am I doing this right, and two what is the benefit of doing this? Is it always better to do this (i.e. every time)?
Yes this is how you will see it done in most pro studios and in most concert live mixing as well ( if they have enough buss's on the mixing board) Yes make a habit of it, there could be times you might put a particular plug in directly on a track but most pro engineers routinely put reverbs and delays on a bus and an aux track.

Fist: benefit is that with a combination of wet and dry signal you have a greater degree of control and can dial in a more precise blend. So now you have the choice of making the effect very subtle where it not necessarily noticeable as an effect per se it just sounds better.. or you can intentionally increase the amount of wet signal volume to really feature the effect.

Second: in a mix with lots of tracks ( like pop music where they might have 100 or more ) you can run multiple tracks to the same effect. ( which in a DAW saves on computer processing power) .. i.e. You can for instance run all the drum kit tracks ( maybe 4-8 ) to the same reverb. or all the backing vocals to the same compressor ect.
So here is another rule of thumb since often with reverb and delay " less is more " "Not always but most of the time.. Try this :start adjusting the volume of the bus down until you can no longer hear the effect then just nudge it back up- a db or two... then if you have a mute on the bus with the effect... just start muting and un muting to compare exactly what the effect is doing on a more subtle level until you like result .

As a bit of audio trivia BUS means more or less just what it does in city traffic
i.e. multiple things (signals instead of people ) can be picked up from different ( locations or tracks ) and in the case of an audio bus then transported to a single destination.




Quote:
And one more thing, what do you mean by OP?
means the "original post"
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  #10  
Old 04-08-2011, 07:50 AM
KevWind KevWind is offline
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Thanks Joseph you got your post in while I was still typing
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  #11  
Old 04-08-2011, 08:23 AM
KevWind KevWind is offline
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Quote:
It's automatic (both the creation of the channel and the routing) in Logic and not in Pro Tools.Now you have the original audio track and a new Aux return channel.
.
As a footnote in PT 9 you now have more or less the same auto feature .
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  #12  
Old 04-08-2011, 02:34 PM
MattChen MattChen is offline
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great,

thanks so much both of you. What a great tip.
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