Limiting & Compression on Master Bus?

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

And when you think about it, dynamic EQ can do the same for you. You can set your static EQ to get the basic sound you want and then grab a band and run over and do an active EQ in the frequency region where there are transients. You set a high threshold, high ratio, and fast attack and decay, and noting but the transients within the band's range are affected. Lurvly. Just like de-essing and squeak reduction.

Bob

Missed this comment. Sounds correct to me! A lot of these different plugins just come down to workflow and UI, different ways to visualize or different knobs to twist to get to the same goal.

[jim1960]

Victor, this might be helpful to your understanding...

Advanced Limiting Techniques

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

A lot of these different plugins just come down to workflow and UI, different ways to visualize or different knobs to twist to get to the same goal.

We should immortalize Doug's proclamation. As I have a constant itch to push the purchase button for something new and exciting.

Even with Doug's profound statement, I still have an irresistible urge to buy F6. The super price of $29.95 is beckoning me.

While simultaneous functions of static and dynamic can be performed in FAB Q3: Doug's workflow memorandum weighs heavy in my mind.
Having an extra dynamic EQ with a different GUI, it will allow me to try the one on top of the other method, with out getting confused which is which.

By using one plugin to perform both functions...I could easily make big mistakes with my inexperience . If I place two of the same one right on top of each, I might confuse which is which. But If I have two different GUI's, one for each purpose of static and one for Dynamic....then my workflow might become a bit easier.

LOL...yeah, I know I am stretching it a bit.

[Bob Womack]

Originally Posted by AcousticDreams

By using one plugin to perform both functions...I could easily make big mistakes with my inexperience . If I place two of the same one right on top of each, I might confuse which is which. But If I have two different GUI's, one for each purpose of static and one for Dynamic....then my workflow might become a bit easier.

LOL...yeah, I know I am stretching it a bit.

The interactive F6 interface makes it pretty clear to me when it is doing dynamic EQ and/or static EQ.

Bob

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by AcousticDreams

Having an extra dynamic EQ with a different GUI, it will allow me to try the one on top of the other method, with out getting confused which is which.
.

Keep in mind that you can have multiple instances of plugins. Since you have FabFilter, you can have one that does static EQ and the follow it with another that does dynamic, and even a third for ??? and so on. To me, one of the nice things about FabFilter (and probably F6 as well?) is that all the controls and info are in one place, but if you need multiple separate plugins to keep track of things, you can easily do that, even with the same plugin. I sometimes use multiple if I'm trying things and want an "easy undo", so I can simply disable or remove a plugin if I decide I didn't like what I did after all (perhaps days later)

I'd think the reason to get the Waves plugin would be if there's something about the way it works or displays info that you prefer over FabFilter.

[DupleMeter]

Originally Posted by AcousticDreams

I understand the value of compression for individual instruments and Voice. I have especially enjoyed compression on Voice. My understanding is that compression was originally designed to help maximize Radio Station signals output. A compressed radio signal would reach out and clearly be heard at greater distances. This meant they could pull in more advertising dollars from towns further away. But they quickly realized that compression also had great value when used on solo instruments.

However, I have no practical knowledge of using a limiter. I have only briefly experimented using limiting when I use to own a 1176, using the 20/1 ratio. And a little bit on Buzz audio Velox compressor at 10/1 and 20/1. I knew not what I was doing in limiting mode, but did not find the desired effect to my liking.

However, I do realize that Limiting is used as a transient tamer? So best used lightly. And I can see where that could be very helpful on a master bus for the final mix.

I have heard many claim to use compression for the last stage for an overall Character enhancement? And Limiting to catch those fast transients.
I would like to have deeper clarification is on the uses of Compression & Limiting on the Master Bus Stereo Out and their implied benefits.

My basic questions are:
Could not transients be corrected before it gets to the the End stage?

Please tell me more about using Compression as a character enhancement on the end stage? Does application to the overall mix do something that can not be corrected individually?

And lastly, I often hear of people using two limiters one right after another. Or a Compressor first and then a limiter. Would like to learn more about the How & Why & the settings used.

When I train young engineers I tell them about compression like this:

Compression serves many functions. The first is the most basic understanding, which is that they compress the dynamic range of a source to allow you control it in the mix better. This is the "utility" function of a compressor.

Secondly, they can alter a source's attack too add punch or make it smoother. This is achieved with the attack setting, mostly.

Thirdly, you can use a compressor to alter the release of a sound, adding sustain or shortening it. This is achieved with the release setting, mostly.

When used with multiple sources there is another function: it can add glue to a group of sounds. I explain this as so: when strapped across a master bus or a submix a compressor helps sounds react more cohesively, but also has this special feature of getting the sources to "cozy up" to each other so they feel more connected (the fabled "mix glue").

Now, limiters. In my mind I divide them up into 2 categories: classic limiting & brickwall (lookahead) limiting.

A Brickwall Limiter is mostly used to add volume in mastering or to insure you don't exceed a specific peak value (true peak limiting). There aren't a lot of musical uses for this kind of limiter.

Classic limiting is very high ratio compression (20:1 & above) with a super fast attack/release time, used mainly to reduce the peaks of a source without applying overall compression. I typically use this kind of limiter before a compressor. The advantage here is to use the limiter to tame big peaks to allow the following compressor to react smoother & not have to deal with the jumps in the signal. This can also be achieved with the classic 2 compressor setup, a fast compressor first to catch the loudest sections & then a "vibe" compressor following with a slower attack/release.

Saturation can also be viewed as compression because adding harmonic distortion acts like a natural peak compressor, much like analogue tape did.

I don't typically use a limiter when mixing unless I get tracks with a lot of untamed peaks. I do use bus compression a lot. I typically mix with 4 buses: Drums (which includes bass), Instrument, Vocals & Returns (FX returns). They all get: Saturation > EQ > Compressor processing. I set these first & then use channel EQ & compression to fine tune the response of the bus masters.

A good compressor makes a difference, as does a really good sounding/music EQ on the buses.

[kurth]

thanks people...a very informative thread. Restructured my thinking on mastering.

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by kurth

thanks people...a very informative thread. Restructured my thinking on mastering.

AGF Record, is so informative. A gathering of kind & nurturing mentors with with years of practical experience.

So wonderful to find that people are reading threads 8 days after they seemingly had closed out. Just one more confirmation of AGF Record's ability to continually reach out & help.

Thanks for your reply of acknowledgement Kurth. I think it is important to let our instructors know, that the time they have taken has made a difference.

[kurth]

we start living in a world where we don't say please and thank you, we're toast. And that 'restructuring' was more like restructuring my mud hut of garbled ideas....into a nice hut where I can finally sweep the floors.