I Need to Stop Thinking

[SCVJ]

I found the analogy of learning baseball as a kid very interesting.

I worked with a guy who played college baseball. He told me that after making a baserunning error he came back to the dugout and started explaining to the coach by saying " I thought...." the coach interrupted him saying "You can think or play ball, you can't do both"

Also, in the movie "Bull Durham", written by an ex minor league player, Kevin Costner played a seasoned player mentoring a rookie. He tells him "Don't think, it can only hurt the team".

Gotta be a lesson here somewhere. There's probably a Yogi Berra or Casey Stengel quote or two that also apply. Baseball's full of wisdom (and humor). Or at least it used to be.

BTW, "Bull Durham" is a real treasure - full of good quotes, excellent acting and funny situations. It's not just about baseball.

[Aspiring]

Originally Posted by SCVJ

I found the analogy of learning baseball as a kid very interesting.



I worked with a guy who played college baseball. He told me that after making a baserunning error he came back to the dugout and started explaining to the coach by saying " I thought...." the coach interrupted him saying "You can think or play ball, you can't do both"



Also, in the movie "Bull Durham", written by an ex minor league player, Kevin Costner played a seasoned player mentoring a rookie. He tells him "Don't think, it can only hurt the team".



Gotta be a lesson here somewhere. There's probably a Yogi Berra or Casey Stengel quote or two that also apply. Baseball's full of wisdom (and humor). Or at least it used to be.



BTW, "Bull Durham" is a real treasure - full of good quotes, excellent acting and funny situations. It's not just about baseball.

It's also a matter of where you are at.

I agree that in the moment predominantly less thinking helps.

However, to get better you have to change an aspect of what you are doing. Practicing the same thing over and over only makes you more consistent at doing the same thing.

Everyone has a certain natural aptitude at things. Everyone has a level they can improve by analysis and rigorous methodical improvement.

Some people need more of the latter to learn. Some people get to a great level just on the first and practice.

Understanding what learning style works best for you is pretty key.

[Andyrondack]

Originally Posted by DCCougar

Yeah, but I bet that was accompanied by thousands of hours of practice. I remember playing catch with my brother, throwing each other grounders and fly balls. Thousands of hours over years 9-12! No, we didn't "think" about it a whole lot, but we sure did practice - cause we enjoyed it.

I find this really strange because the only thing I have ever done better without thinking and without practicing has been throwing a ball / stone at a target or using a cue to hit a pool ball at a target.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by SCVJ

I found the analogy of learning baseball as a kid very interesting.

"As a kid" is an important point here.

Kids are learning machines, basically. Everything they do - especially when they play - is about learning. They don't necessarily see it that way. Mostly they just see it as having fun. They don't (at least when very young) have they hang-up about being afraid of ignorance (embarrassment about not knowing). Every new activity is a game. But they naturally learn as they go.

That's the important thing to remember as adults. We still use the word "play" to refer to making music. Playing is how you learn. Treat it as a game where it doesn't matter if you make a mistake - you just remember the mistake and don't make it next time.

It's important not to regard "play" as something trivial or superficial; as in the silly term "child's play". When you watch a child playing, they are totally absorbed in the process. It's 100% enjoyment - or they wouldn't do it. Playing is deep; primal and crucial. That's how to approach music: as a 100% absorbing activity. You learn it by doing it. Not by reading about. Like playing ball, or swimming, or dancing, or even driving a car.

The point is, you don't understand it until you're actually doing it. No book will ever explain music to you as well as actually playing music does.

[rllink]

Kids do pick up things easily, but only to a certain extent. My daughter was a good softball player and as a young child she was a rising star. But somewhere around thirteen or fourteen it was batting clinic, softball camps, private batting lessons and hours with a coach one on one to keep her there.

[OliveCorduroy]

Hello All,

I have found all of the comments to my post very educating and quite interesting. I was hoping that my playing baseball as a kid analogy would spark a conversation that would help me understand how to apply my baseball learning experience as a kid to my guitar learning experience as an adult; and all of your comments have done so.

I would cite an awful lot of the comments individually but I havenÂ’t figured out how to do that correctly, but what I can say is that what I have learned from all the comments is to just play and have fun, and by doing so, the learning process will simply just happen all on its own - no thinking required.

George

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by OliveCorduroy

I have learned from all the comments is to just play and have fun, and by doing so, the learning process will simply just happen all on its own - no thinking required.

George

To an extent...I mean, at some point you'll probably have to do some thinking, depending on what kind of music you get into.

To me the key is not to get into thinking as a prerequisite to making music.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by rllink

Kids do pick up things easily, but only to a certain extent. My daughter was a good softball player and as a young child she was a rising star. But somewhere around thirteen or fourteen it was batting clinic, softball camps, private batting lessons and hours with a coach one on one to keep her there.

Sounds like she lost her enthusiasm.

It's no good making kids do things they don't want to - certainly not if it's just a recreational activity. With music, at least, it's counter-productive. As long as they enjoy an activity, they will learn and improve. If they don't enjoy it - why make them do it? Kids' enthusiasms change as they get older, that's natural.

As long as you enjoy playing music, you will improve. But of course, if you're enjoying it, you're not thinking about improving. Enjoyment is the point, not getting better.

The worst thing you can do is let practice become a chore. If you don't like doing it, don't do it. Why would you want to get better at something you don't like doing? If you want to play guitar, but you're not enjoying practice, you're obviously doing something wrong.

[pf400]

"When I was young(8 years old), I wanted to play baseball. My dad gave me a glove so I put it on. I didn’t ask how to put it on, or what hand to put it on, what it was made of, or where it came from. I just put it on. He then threw me a ball and said to throw it back to him. So I threw him the ball. I didn’t ask how I should angle my arm to throw it, or how to aim the ball, or was this ball the same one that the big leaguers used. No, I just threw him the ball. "

Interesting thread and responses. Of course you can't learn much by having someone put a guitar in your hands and then you just "play it" or can you ?

I'm an analytical, thinking type. But for many years I just mechanically played chords and very slowly learned to strum and pick "by ear". Gradually I did get into music theory and its application to guitar...Very happy I did.

I have been teaching guitar for money for about 12 years. About 1 in 10 of my students, beginner-level or not, have showed interest in theory. Most just want to learn songs and using what they learned, progress in their own creativity. They miss out on the richness of (even basic) music theory. 10 out of 10 (of those that don't give up) theory or not, enriched their lives through guitar.

[Joe Beamish]

Writing songs wouldn’t be possible for me — at least not the ones I like — if I engaged in thinking while doing it.

[rllink]

Originally Posted by JonPR

Sounds like she lost her enthusiasm.

It's no good making kids do things they don't want to - certainly not if it's just a recreational activity. With music, at least, it's counter-productive. As long as they enjoy an activity, they will learn and improve. If they don't enjoy it - why make them do it? Kids' enthusiasms change as they get older, that's natural.

As long as you enjoy playing music, you will improve. But of course, if you're enjoying it, you're not thinking about improving. Enjoyment is the point, not getting better.

The worst thing you can do is let practice become a chore. If you don't like doing it, don't do it. Why would you want to get better at something you don't like doing? If you want to play guitar, but you're not enjoying practice, you're obviously doing something wrong.

Not at all, it is called being committed. Youthful bliss will only take them so far.

[firenza]

Originally Posted by Joe Beamish

Writing songs wouldn’t be possible for me — at least not the ones I like — if I engaged in thinking while doing it.

I can't write songs but I write a little poetry. I agree the successful pieces just seem to filter out of the unconscious, but the analytical bit follows when you're considering which bits to keep as they are and which to change. I suppose the second stage also applies to correcting your guitar technique. But, for me at least, the initial guitar playing never just emerges from the unconscious. If only!