Another Amaturish Effort...

David Rock · #1 06-19-2018, 08:36 PM

Hello all:

It's been a while since I have posted anything. Life has been in the way of life so to speak. I am trying to collect some thoughts on original compositions and want to to post the efforts. Here is a recording of a solo fingerstyle which is what I do.

I would love any input from the AGFrs regarding the "acceptable" level of this recording and how I could make it "better" (bass, treble, mids, reverb, etc.). Sorry I can't get into recording technique...it is the best it can be (not to mention my personal playing/composing capabilities!).

Any feed back is appreciated -- Any -- including go back to the woodshed!

Thanking you in advance and regards,
David Rock

rick-slo · #2 06-19-2018, 10:33 PM

Piezo sounding. Fairly odd. You will get a better sound via microphones.

Doug Young · #3 06-19-2018, 10:44 PM

For someone who doesnt want to get into recording technique, a pretty easy answer is to just get one of the "point-and-shoot" recorders, like the Zoom, Tascam, etc. Cheap, one button, sit it in front of you, press record, and play. That should produce a much better sound that wouldn't distract from the music.

reeve21 · #4 06-20-2018, 09:58 AM

Hi David,

I'm (supposed to be

) working right now so I haven't listened yet, but I wanted to follow up on Doug's recommendation of a point and shoot recorder.

I have a Zoom h4n that I picked up used very cheaply here on the AGF. The thing is great for a technophobe and hobbyist like me. A huge step up from my iPhone recordings. I run it to Audacity which is a free and easy to figure out DAW (apparently not the best but it suits my needs).

The nice thing about it is the size, fits easily in your palm. If I remember you do or did live on a sailboat, so this would work well either on batteries or with the AC adapter if you are at a dock or running a generator. it has 2 internal mics, and you can attach others if you want to "step up" some day. You can also plug directly into it if you want to play with the sound coming out of your pickup. It has some effects processing right onboard, but for me it is just easier to use a DAW for that stuff. You can also multi-track with many of the Zoom models.

There are several folks who post on show and tell who use zooms...and they get very nice results.

Hope this helps.

runamuck · #5 06-20-2018, 06:21 PM

I agree that a Zoom, or some other hand held recorder, would sound a lot better than the piezo pickup sound you're getting. I can't listen to that for more than a few seconds but that may just be me.

David Rock · #6 06-20-2018, 08:35 PM

Thanks for the replies all:

O.K. I will break out the Shure SM-81 again. Thanks Bob for remembering I live on a boat...now 6 months on and 6 off. In an effort to 'minimize' and have consistency, this recording was as simple as I could imagine.

I know how to get good clean full sound, but was hoping for a happy medium between holding my breath, hoping like heck the a/c didn't come on, the dog didn't burp, the fridge didn't shiver, and amidst all of that getting one good cut -- and simply choosing not to record.

I did a CD several years ago. After an untold number of takes and grief, told myself not to go there again.That finished product was good, but it took a toll on my (and my beautiful wife's) attitude.

I am in a house that I have claimed a man cave bedroom. But, I will not 'treat' it. Recording is not that important to me. I am just trying to capture a message. On one hand I don't want to annoy the 'listeners', on the the other I know I am asking for advice from some of the best [I]acoustic guitar people[I] on this planet!

So, I will try again to capture something better by microphone...We'll see how that goes.

Until I post again...
Regards
David

TBman · #7 06-20-2018, 08:58 PM

Go Zoom, without question.

philjs · #8 06-20-2018, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Rock

O.K. I will break out the Shure SM-81 again. ...snip... I know how to get good clean full sound, but was hoping for a happy medium between holding my breath, hoping like heck the a/c didn't come on, the dog didn't burp, the fridge didn't shiver, and amidst all of that getting one good cut -- and simply choosing not to record.

Sounds like you could benefit from using a ToneDexter, David. ToneDexter is a preamp where you use the SM81 and the pickup simultaneously to "train" the preamp so that your pickup emulates the sound of your guitar with the microphone. While aimed primarily at live sound, there's a "slot" to keep an image specifically for recording. A number of AGF folks have tried, and are quite happy with, using them for recording. See the various threads in the Acoustic Amplification forum...

Phil

David Rock · #9 06-21-2018, 08:10 PM

Hello again:

I read on this forum a quote that I have hung onto. It was by Jose Ramirez, "In every human endeavor a wise man will find virtue, and a fool will find fault."

I googled it and could not verify it, but I appreciate it tremendously.

Here is 'First Light' again via microphone (Shure SM81). It ought to be adequate for my non-commercial purposes here. Is one better than the next? I suppose so. Which one? Listener's choice. It is tough to compare 'a to b', but maybe not. Maybe a or b stands out, and it not more annoying than the other.

Where to from here? I probably need to buy much more, better gear and/or just go studio?

If I were to modify this recording what would the recommendations be? Or just ditch this and do...What?

Regards,
David

rick-slo · #10 06-21-2018, 09:08 PM

Recording sound generally ok. Lots of gear hiss though. See what you can do about that. Down the road you might consider a second mike for stereo recording.

Doug Young · #11 06-21-2018, 09:29 PM

That sounds vastly better to me, people can listen and focus on your music more easily. An SM81 is fine. Mics are like guitars, they come in all different types, brands, sounds, and prices. There is no single right choice.

I thought in your original post, you said you weren't interested in improving your recording, so I'm not sure how to recommend a next step. There are tradeoffs in time/effort/cost/result no matter what choices you make. Having a clear goal would probably making it easier to make those choices.

Joseph Hanna · #12 06-21-2018, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Young

There are tradeoffs in time/effort/cost/result no matter what choices you make.

This.

For me this recording would be a great “launching” point”. It’s MUCH better than the piezo recording you posted earlier. I’m guessin there’s many here who are in the same boat in understanding a good recording consists of a bunch of invested time, trial and error, patience and understanding.

I think you’re on to something here and if you’re willing, a little effort and elbow grease will go a long way. In the end the lesson here is it simply won’t happen overnight but you have a good starting point for sure!

David Rock · #13 06-22-2018, 07:23 AM

Thanks for the responses. Yes, I knew this would be better. I believe I can get the hiss out with a little effort.

My op was more about post recording processing of this style. The guitar, Mic, equipment, and of course me all have limitations. Maybe there is nothing left to add or subtract after I get clean sound. I don't fully understand compression or if that is something that would help, but I will research it.

I also think this a good starting point, or maybe even ending point. As I said this is not for commercial purposes. I also believe having a goal is appropriate and good advice. That in itself can allow us as individuals to deal with the perfect imperfections at our own level.

I know there is a whole profession in mastering! My hat is off to all of you!

Regards,
David

David Rock · #14 06-22-2018, 08:10 AM

Thanks for the responses. Yes, I knew this would be better. I believe I can get the hiss out with a little effort.

My op was more about post recording processing of this style. The guitar, Mic, equipment, and of course me all have limitations. Maybe there is nothing left to add or subtract after I get clean sound. I don't fully understand compression or if that is something that would help, but I will research it.

I also think this a good starting point, or maybe even ending point. As I said this is not for commercial purposes. I also believe having a goal is appropriate and good advice. That in itself can allow us as individuals to deal with the perfect imperfections at our own level.

I know there is a whole profession in mastering! My hat is off to all of you!

Regards,
David

reeve21 · #15 06-22-2018, 08:17 AM

Hi David,

I much prefer the second recording, too, and find it perfectly acceptable for the purposes you describe.

As a neophyte at recording I would dump it into a DAW and just mess around with it to try and remove some of the self noise, which I'm guessing is coming from your recording rig, but might also be something in your room. Audacity has a noise reduction feature, and I also play around with EQ, reverb and compression to try and get a better sound.

BTW that is a neat composition. The timing is very interesting, aptly titled in my opinion--like the sun is just starting to peek over the horizon. Well done!