Is there consensus best Carbon Fiber guitar?

[SlopeD]

With 3 young kids in the house I am seriously considering getting one of these to leave out on the stand, travel with etc. Any help is appreciated. Thanks for looking.

[gfa]

No more so than with wood guitars.

[Earl49]

Slope, that is kinda like asking if there is a consensus "best car". It all depends on what meets your specific needs -- what you can spend, and what does your playing style demand?

Rainsong has been building longer than most and will probably be the easiest to find in North America. Composite Acoustics is often characterized as the woodiest tone in the CF world. Emerald makes great guitars in Ireland, but they only sell direct from their web site - you won't see them in stores. Blackbird in San Francisco has recently stopped taking orders for carbon fiber, switching over to their proprietary ekoa linen composite material. Not cheap, but ekoa looks and sounds a lot like mahogany. If you need travel capability, Journey sells the OF660 with a removable neck, and the RT660 with fixed neck. Both are very nice little guitars. Realize that CF guitars are not "cheap plastic" like many people think. They are very high quality instruments built with an expensive material requiring very expensive molds. They simply are not available for $500, even used. The best deal going is the Rainsong C-H (composite hybrid) series, starting at ~$1350.

I suggest you study the LA Guitar Sales web site, and the manufacturer web sites, then call forum sponsor Ted at LA Guitars to tap his considerable experience in the business. He won't steer you wrong.
https://www.laguitarsales.com/

Another good source is Elderly Instruments in Lansing, MI. I bought my Rainsong WS-1000 seventeen years ago from them. www.elderly.com

If you are just looking for cheap and durable, then the HPL Martin's are probably the way to go, like the 000-X and the DX. That will give most of the durability and freedom from humidity care, at half the price of carbon fiber -- or even less if bought used. And hang out in the Carbon Fiber room for lots more discussion.

[merlin666]

Thanks for the summary.

[BT55]

I agree with Earl49!
With children in the house and an exposed guitar theres a good probability that the guitar will be knocked over. Kids will be kids - that’s their job. There are plenty of used X series Martins or 100 series Taylor’s available in the $500 range. If they got damaged you’d get upset but if a $1200 CF guitar took the same damage you’d get really upset!

[Captain Jim]

Carbon fiber guitars are resistant to temperature and humidity changes, but they are not... indestructible. They may withstand a knock better than wood, but I wouldn't put mine to the test. With kids in the house, a hardshell case would be advised.

As far as a consensus on the best CF guitar? Um... hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah... no. Earl hit the highlights, but each manufacturer offers different sizes, finishes, and options. Just like with wood manufacturers, there are "typical" tones from each manufacturer. Budget, size, comfort will also play a part in your decision. Most CF makers offer something parlor-ish and something full size.

If looks figures into your decision, most have that lovely carbon fiber weave, some offer a colored top finish, and Emerald makes breath-taking custom wood veneer models that are unique.

Carbon fiber also gives the maker some building options beyond most wood manufacturers - they can design in compound curves or offer models that are more traditional in shape. Some use braces on the top to shape the tone, but carbon fiber doesn't need that for the stiffness.

One thing I have found with the different carbon fiber guitars I've been able to play: generally, a crisp tone. Not "tinny," but not muddy like some wood guitars. I have come to prefer the carbon fiber sound of my guitars, even over that of the wood guitars I still have.

A lot of folks will check into CF for the "no fuss" care, thinking they may have to give up something in tone to get that "no fuss." I would not be one of those folks. While I still have some wood guitars, I could easily narrow it down to just two guitars - one small (X7), one larger (X20), both carbon fiber, both from Emerald.

Some of us from the forum recently got together in the Phoenix area and had the opportunity to play a LOT of each other's CF guitars... not a single one I didn't like!

Good luck with your search.

Jim

[Matt McGriff]

Don’t overlook the McPherson carbon offerings. I’ve owned and gigged with Composite Acoustic and Rainsong guitars in the past and my current McPherson Sable is right there with both of those brands. Excellent guitars.

[TjthePhD]

Originally Posted by gfa

No more so than with wood guitars.

This sums it up best.

[NoodleFingers]

Overall, I'd guess that Leviora guitars from Germany would probably be considered the overall best (if you take lots of opinions into account). But they're also the most expensive I've seen, and not many of them make it to the States.

I'm saving my pennies, though.

[Minstermarce]

Slightly off topic, but I came across the video below on youtube and it is rather interesting, as Darrell Braun takes you through a Wood, HPL and CF guitar blind test using different styles (fingerstyle, strumming and riff). Get yourself a pencil and paper and have a go and maybe it might help you decide if you like the CF sound!

https://youtu.be/UlZveUnb5hY

I managed to pick out the CF in two of the three styles.

Cheers.

[Methos1979]

Originally Posted by Minstermarce

Slightly off topic, but I came across the video below on youtube and it is rather interesting, as Darrell Braun takes you through a Wood, HPL and CF guitar blind test using different styles (fingerstyle, strumming and riff). Get yourself a pencil and paper and have a go and maybe it might help you decide if you like the CF sound!

https://youtu.be/UlZveUnb5hY

I managed to pick out the CF in two of the three styles.

Cheers.

Great video. I was able to correctly identify the correct guitars on all three tests! I found I preferred the wood guitar the most on the first and third video and the HPL on the second (strumming). Go figure. I'd like to see this guy do a test with all CF guitars, specifically an Emerald X20, a Rainsong Shorty APLE, a McPherson Sable and an El Capitan.

[Captain Jim]

I enjoy those comparison videos, but see the flaw in having one particular guitar define "the material." I was able to identify which was which in each comparison, but felt that each of the examples sounded like... a guitar.

In this particular comparison, the wood guitar being used is a warm example of wood. The RainSong is a crisp, bell-like tone, and the HPL is somewhere in between, but a bit muted. Having played other CF guitars, I find the RainSongs tend towards the crisp (bell-like, piano-like - pick your favorite descriptive term) side of most carbon fiber guitars. Put an Emerald X20 or a McPherson Sable in there, and compare that with a Taylor 600 to 800 series, and it might be closer in terms of tone. I've only played a couple HPL guitars, so can't really offer much of an opinion on what guitar best represents that tone.

I could enjoy any of those guitars in the right hands. I guess what a comparison like this shows me is that there are a lot of interesting tones out there... and I'm content to enjoy some variety.

[BT55]

Originally Posted by Methos1979

Great video. I was able to correctly identify the correct guitars on all three tests! I found I preferred the wood guitar the most on the first and third video and the HPL on the second (strumming). Go figure. I'd like to see this guy do a test with all CF guitars, specifically an Emerald X20, a Rainsong Shorty APLE, a McPherson Sable and an El Capitan.

Your response was very well stated. I’ve seen other members quote studies where the respondents were unable to tell the difference between wood and CF guitars. I don’t buy the results from those studies. I own seven acoustics including a CF and can blindly identify each one as they all have different tonality. I am willing to bet that the studies respondents listen to low quality music using low quality audio components. I believe that anyone with a good ear would also be able to correctly identify the instruments.

[Methos1979]

Originally Posted by BT55

Your response was very well stated. I’ve seen other members quote studies where the respondents were unable to tell the difference between wood and CF guitars. I don’t buy the results from those studies. I own seven acoustics including a CF and can blindly identify each one as they all have different tonality. I am willing to bet that the studies respondents listen to low quality music using low quality audio components. I believe that anyone with a good ear would also be able to correctly identify the instruments.

Normally I have a very hard time telling the difference of these types of videos especially when it's three similar, like three all-solid wood guitars but maybe just different tonewoods or slight variations in body size. But being a well-versed CF owner (I've now owned six different CF guitars) it was easy to pick out the CF over the wood and the solid wood guitar being smaller bodied had a warmer/thicker tone so that was easy as well which only left the HPL which was brighter than the solid wood but not as bright as the CF. I think if the CF had been something like an X20 or something with a uni-directional top or a Savoy it might have been harder to tell.

[steelvibe]

Originally Posted by BT55

I’ve seen other members quote studies where the respondents were unable to tell the difference between wood and CF guitars. I don’t buy the results from those studies. I own seven acoustics including a CF and can blindly identify each one as they all have different tonality. I am willing to bet that the studies respondents listen to low quality music using low quality audio components. I believe that anyone with a good ear would also be able to correctly identify the instruments.

Hey BT55. Congrats on your Rainsong! Your ears are likely better than mine. I’ve spent years going to various rock/ metal concerts, been in several bands myself, and have worked years in manufacturing (can't claim my old ears are the best)

I’m one of the members who mentioned at least one study (although I didn’t quote anything). I spoke of the fun little Facebook test that Al Petteway did back in 2013, where he compared 5 guitars and posted those clips on Soundcloud (worth mentioning here that this was before he endorsed Rainsong and they created the Petteway models). What gear he used to record with is beyond me, but it was Al Petteway- something tells me he wouldn’t use his cell phone I listened back on $70.00 Skullcandy headphones- so whatever sound depreciated between his fingers/ gear and my ears/ gear is lost on me.

I’ve seen the Darrell Braun video, and while it is a cool video to help folks understand the tonal differences between HPL, a good solid wood OM, and a CF OM, watching a video subjects one to at least some level of visual bias-at least in my opinion. So, I provide you the thread that I started here 4 years ago about the Petteway comparison I speak of- audio only. That thread was started 5 months before I owned my first CF- a RainSong Shorty. Why I even mention that is because I agree with you all here that, while CF can sound close to wood, it really does not. However, I've got no skin in that game- I bought the guitar because it sounded really good to me.

For fun get some good headphones and listen to the samples in post #1 before going to the answer key that was posted by jgillard in post #5. Doug Young only messed up on the wooden guitars, but he was able to pick out the CFs- I think he has better ears than me for sure ! I don't have a Facebook so I can't provide the results Al posted on his page- but they are somewhere over the rainbow....er, deep in cyber space...... but many participants failed to pick out the CF. Was I blinded by Petteway's brilliant playing and RainSong's marketing? Maybe- but I still own said guitar.

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...2C+al+petteway