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#1
11-20-2002, 10:16 AM
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chromatic scale
how can it be applied while improvising? I've read pieces on this and really don't understand fully what the power of this scale is...it seems, well, rather non-mmelodic...
I am self-taught and know some theory in regard to chords scales and modes, but I'm wanting to get out of a rut with the few solos i do with my band....I know what a chromatic scale is (a 12 note scale containg all of the sharps and flats and whole note)...but i'm wondering how to master and apply it to create melodies and things... i hope I'm making sense...this was on my mind after reading some jazz theory articles online... Last edited by CDT; 11-20-2002 at 03:06 PM. 
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#2
11-20-2002, 06:36 PM
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Jamey Aeborsold....ugh....I'll be back....
horn players breathe.... breathing is good...
__________________
Indeed, there is something in the current DC/NY culture that equates a lack of unthinking boosterism with a lack of patriotism. As if not being drunk on the latest Dow gains is somehow un-American. - Arianna Huffington May 11, 2009
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#3
11-20-2002, 07:56 PM
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ugga bugga..
ok... without hesitation (possibly) ((well, that doesn't make much sense daddy....?!?!???!) I would suggest you get Volume 24 Major and Minor and Volume 1 How to Play Jazz and Improvise from Jamey Aeborsold... ...go to www.jajazz.com they're in the play - a - long section...(note that the numbering order does not follow the suggested order of study.... Vol 24,1,21,2,54,3,5, etc...is the suggested order.... I've only got volumes 24,1, and 3.....wish I had more but lingerie is a budget killer.... and to top it off.... this bonobo can shred things faster than an Enron executive... anyways.... the possible hesitation is.... con't.....
__________________
Indeed, there is something in the current DC/NY culture that equates a lack of unthinking boosterism with a lack of patriotism. As if not being drunk on the latest Dow gains is somehow un-American. - Arianna Huffington May 11, 2009
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#4
11-20-2002, 08:01 PM
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these are designed for all instruments....
and that means.... gasp shock and horror.... NO TABLATURE! life is better when you can read music... tonight on the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show watch for the segment where the models all agree that male guitarists who can read music are sexy..... basics basics basics.... What time is it? I'm off...... Flay Otters!
__________________
Indeed, there is something in the current DC/NY culture that equates a lack of unthinking boosterism with a lack of patriotism. As if not being drunk on the latest Dow gains is somehow un-American. - Arianna Huffington May 11, 2009
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#5
11-20-2002, 08:52 PM
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162 and 163 are not the same number.....
CDT....he (Jamey Aebersold) demonstrates chromatics on those Book/CD's...blues scale against major tonality...dorian....etc....
he's a sax player.... guitarists often make the mistake of trying to play the guitar.. folks who play other instruments try to play music...funny how they don't seem to struggle like guitar players..... the chromatic is used to connect....you don't really play up and down and up and down and up down it.....use it to connect ideas and resolve to a chord tone.....used to 'squeeze' notes in.... learn that fretboard with the I and IV triads....connect connect connect C major = C E G F major = F A C 4 beats on each.... solo off chord tones only then start adding notes to make scales then go back to only chord tones... then add in chromatics.... then go back to your relevant scales... then add chromatics to your scales... go back to chord tones only and start bending like Larry Carlton.. build back up again.... no old fart jazz.... Manuel??!!?!??!!?
__________________
Indeed, there is something in the current DC/NY culture that equates a lack of unthinking boosterism with a lack of patriotism. As if not being drunk on the latest Dow gains is somehow un-American. - Arianna Huffington May 11, 2009
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#6
11-20-2002, 09:53 PM
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there's a chunk of the blues scale that is chromatic too right?
and all bebop scales contain at least some chromatic runs right in the scale if I remember right I'm a sax player but I still struggle reading guitar music in notes, it's a big black mess, ick! workin workin workin
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#7
11-21-2002, 08:06 AM
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mapletrees you freakin' crack me up dude..lol...your posts are great..
 anyway... I play guitar like a horn or piano anyway..or i try to....I do not ever run up and down scales in box positions.....never have...never want to... i do a lot of melodies on single strings...in all keys..sliding a lot..gives my riffs an interesting sound i think....this comes from years of piano as a kid and then years as a bassist in funk/rock bands... i relate 100% to this idea: Quote:
i use the chromatic to run warmup excercises though... ~J~, bebops put a chromatic in between certain scale tones...like, say, between the 5th and 6th... here's a quote on them: Quote:
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#8
11-21-2002, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
__________________
“Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all.” ― G.K. Chesterton
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#9
11-21-2002, 04:16 PM
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I think of the chromatic scale as being all of the colors on the pallet in harmony, because there are just 12 notes in western music. Every other scale or arpeggio is just selecting from that pallet. If you’re in the key or G for example there are 7 notes inside that harmony, so there are 5 that are outside the key. If you’re in F minor, there again, there are 7 notes inside that tonal center and 5 are outside. There are many books and things that give you all kinds of exotic scales, modes, or other devices that you can employ to include “outside notes” ( AKA approach notes, passing tones, chromatics, etc. ) but it’s probably best to just really knew what is inside and just weave in the outside stuff how you see and hear fit. An example of how NOT to do this, in my opinion mind you, is to learn some rule like “ when playing over G major use the A maj7 arpeggio because that will result in giving you this outside note”. Now imagine knowing 50 rules like this and thinking you’ll come up with the right rule for the right chord on the fly. A lot of people teach this stuff, but very few real players think that way, in my research anyway. It’s hard to imagine Jimi Hendrix, or Doc Watson, or Charlie Parker thinking about what diminished scale to play over a dominant chord. Record yourself playing a chord, and play the scale or arpeggio it was created from for a while. Now try including some of the notes that aren't in the scale. Think about spending less time on the outside notes, perhaps beginning and ending phrases with notes that are inside and use the outside notes just to get from one inside note to another. Of course it’s all a matter of taste as to how much you want to emphasize the outside stuff. To me a typical folksy major key progression is going to be much harder to make sound “good” with a lot of outside harmony. As you get into minor stuff, or particularly altered dominant vamps, you can get away with a lot more tension. Using the chromatic scale as just a long scale in and of it’s self can also be nice. If you’re playing over an A minor try using any made of fingering, on any strings, and try beginning and ending the run on A or some other relevant note to A minor. I recommend using software such as TRANSCRIBE to slow down Amhad Jamal solos. I think he is the master of this ( and to me everything else ) but you will need to slow it down to get it.
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#10
11-22-2002, 09:20 AM
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thanks eric...I will look into some amhad jamal stuff and use my amazing slow downer program...BTW i love your playing and music.
I posted this same ? over at the AG forum...take a look, for those interested...between the replies here and there, I have quite a bit of good info to work with..... AG post: http://www.acousticguitar.com/ubb/Fo...ML/001824.html
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#11
11-22-2002, 11:24 AM
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CDT...remember remember remember....there is no 'correct' approach...use what works for you....
when you do find different things that work, though...try to find common reasons as to why what you are doing is helpful...oh my word I can't things well... while min7b5 and I *might* agree on some things and *might* seem to disagree on other things regarding approaching soloing....there is one biggee biggee biggee biggee thing that our approaches *might* have in common.... con't.....
__________________
Indeed, there is something in the current DC/NY culture that equates a lack of unthinking boosterism with a lack of patriotism. As if not being drunk on the latest Dow gains is somehow un-American. - Arianna Huffington May 11, 2009
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#12
11-22-2002, 11:31 AM
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notice how biggee well that was worded...
In some other post min7b5 (some jazz-oriented thread) suggested working off melodies as a starting point for soloing (as one of just many things)...(I hope my memory is accurate and I'm not just putting words in his mouth)...
I suggested (as just one of many things) in some other thread that a good way to start soloing is to just play a couple of chords and start soloing over them by hitting a chord tone of one and then a chord tone of the second.... again...these are starting points...but what do the approaches have in common??????????? they both work for a reason...
__________________
Indeed, there is something in the current DC/NY culture that equates a lack of unthinking boosterism with a lack of patriotism. As if not being drunk on the latest Dow gains is somehow un-American. - Arianna Huffington May 11, 2009
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#13
11-22-2002, 11:53 AM
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solo off chord tones only
then start adding notes to make scales then go back to only chord tones... then add in chromatics.... then go back to your relevant scales... then add chromatics to your scales... go back to chord tones only and start bending like Larry Carlton..
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#14
11-22-2002, 02:54 PM
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I also wanted to mention that another cool way to incorporate chromatics, passing notes, whatever you want to call it, is to put them in a melody you already have control over. Sometimes with students we’ll take the first few phrases of Twinkle Twinkle and try to slowly add in some outside notes ( maybe in addition to other notes that are not normally in the melody, but are inside the harmony, or not ). This works well because the students can hear every note of the melody in their head, and pretty quickly visualize it on the fretboard. If there is a jazz melody, or a bluegrass melody they know that well, then that would be the next step.
One of the reasons I like Ahmad Jamal so much is that while a lot of us think in terms of chords, scales, melodies, etc, and add chromaticism to that, he seems to be coming from a chromatic place first, and maybe adds chord tones,melody, etc, from there. Another observation is that some Monk melodies are almost entirely chromatic, like Straight No Chaser, or one of favorites to play, Blue Monk. They are just friendly little blues tunes, where for the most part , he begins each phase from a chord tone and then just kind of goes up chromatically till the new chord comes. One stunning guitar example is Mark O’Connor’s playing on Dixie Breakdown on his “guitar record” Markology. This scared me the first time I heard it, here is this 16 year fiddle player playing this jaw dropping guitar piece that he won first place at Winfield with at 14!! Last edited by min7b5; 11-22-2002 at 03:38 PM.
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#15
11-22-2002, 03:06 PM
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http://www.vh1.com/artists/az/oconno...73/album.jhtml
I just listened to the short sample there of "dixie breakdown"...oh my...
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