Grand Pacific SaddLe Saga

[kcnbys]

I purchased a Taylor 517 earlier this year, had it for one week, and then put a Baggs Anthem SL in it. I have used an "SL" twice before in two different Taylor guitars with fantastic results and no discernible affect on the acoustic/unplugged tone of the guitars (GS8 & DN3); both with TUSQ saddles. I love the Anthem SL, so decided to put one in my new 517. Lately, while playing unplugged, I've felt like the guitar is too quiet with a lack of sustain. This struck me as curious since sustain is one of the benchmark qualities of V-Class bracing, and I keep reading about how happy people are with the volume of the GP's. I have, up to this point, been a big supporter of the fact that the "element" UST (which the Anthem units utilize) do not affect the acoustic tone of guitars in a substantial way. Well, last night I did a little test and pulled the SL out of my 517, and then replaced the shaved down micarta saddle with a brand new TUSQ saddle. All I can say is . . . WOW!!! My 517 has come alive! I had a hunch that UST was the culprit, and that seems to have been confirmed. I had felt for a while that something wasn't quite right. The guitar sounds absolutely wonderful now with great volume and fantastic sustain. I'm thrilled! Don't get me wrong, I'm still a big fan of the Anthem SL, but NOT in my 517. It's either going to be a soundhole mag or SBT for this baby moving forward. Unplugged tone is important to me, even with guitars I use, to play out. BTW - I typically use Elixir PBs on my guitars, but didn't care for them on my GP. That also has changed. They were all I had on hand with which to restring, and for whatever reason, they sound fantastic now. It's like a different guitar, and I love it - woohoo!

[OjaiAndrew]

Interesting post. I’ve tried hard to like Taylor and have had several over the years but they all get sold off and replaced with Martins. But i bought a 517 last week and it’s a keeper. Totally love it. I just got a bone saddle for it last eve and I’m looking forward to trying it out compared to the micarta one to see how it sounds. I’m happy that I didn’t get the 517e. I’m having a K&K pure mini installed soon. Love the Grand Pacifics. Enjoy yours. Glad you found its optimal tone.

[jazzguy]

Originally Posted by OjaiAndrew

Interesting post. I’ve tried hard to like Taylor and have had several over the years but they all get sold off and replaced with Martins. But i bought a 517 last week and it’s a keeper. Totally love it. I just got a bone saddle for it last eve and I’m looking forward to trying it out compared to the micarta one to see how it sounds. I’m happy that I didn’t get the 517e. I’m having a K&K pure mini installed soon. Love the Grand Pacifics. Enjoy yours. Glad you found its optimal tone.

I think the point of the OP is that the Baggs Element UST did in fact impact the tone of the guitar - which is interesting and I do not doubt it. As I understand the OP, they removed the UST altogether then replaced the saddle. However, replacing the saddle may or may not impact the tone for you but YMMV. Keep in mind that the 517e will have Taylor's proprietary pickup that is not a UST (Undersaddle Pickup) like the LR Baggs Element (which I happen to like) but rather it is behind the saddle (ES2 system). Some like it and some do not. I also like Taylor's ES2 pickup system but it needs to be carefully adjusted with the 3 micro saddle adjustements. Hope this helps.

[Shades of Blue]

This is why I prefer to have a dedicated guitar for live/amplified use. I would never want a pickup system on a "porch picking" guitar. I bought my 517 to ultimately become my live guitar, but I don't see that panning out.

[jklotz]

Originally Posted by Shades of Blue

This is why I prefer to have a dedicated guitar for live/amplified use. I would never want a pickup system on a "porch picking" guitar.

I can see some merit to this line of thinking. I mean the best one can hope for is a pickup system will have no effect on the unamplified acoustic sound.

[Cibby]

I just bought a Grand Pacific. I emailed Taylor about the use of Micarta saddle in a non pickup model. Taylor replied to my question and said they liked Micarta better when used with there pickup amplified models. Great but they didn't answer my question which was why use Micarta in straight acoustic models. I replaced the Micarta saddle in mine with a bone saddle. The sustain that was missing is now there and the overall all sound is much better.

[btaylor]

Originally Posted by Cibby

I just bought a Grand Pacific. I emailed Taylor about the use of Micarta saddle in a non pickup model. Taylor replied to my question and said they liked Micarta better when used with there pickup amplified models. Great but they didn't answer my question which was why use Micarta in straight acoustic models. I replaced the Micarta saddle in mine with a bone saddle. The sustain that was missing is now there and the overall all sound is much better.

Have installed any aftermarket pickup? or still acoustic with the bone saddle?

[kcnbys]

Originally Posted by Cibby

I just bought a Grand Pacific. I emailed Taylor about the use of Micarta saddle in a non pickup model. Taylor replied to my question and said they liked Micarta better when used with there pickup amplified models. Great but they didn't answer my question which was why use Micarta in straight acoustic models. I replaced the Micarta saddle in mine with a bone saddle. The sustain that was missing is now there and the overall all sound is much better.

Interesting. I knew micarta was Taylor's preferred material with the ES2, so I have wondered the same thing as well, since my 517 is purely acoustic. I doubt if my issues were primarily related to the micarta saddle. I'm sure it was the element UST. But the TUSQ saddle I replaced it with is providing stellar results. I may try bone at some point, but I can't imagine improving on what I've got going with the 517 now.

[btaylor]

I've been thinking about this UST ordeal....I love my GP with the Anthem SL, BUT I like the idea Taylor has with the ES2 by placing the sensors to where they press up against the back of the saddle and retain the wood to saddle contact along the bottom. I wonder if it would be possible to create either a notched saddle that would have a slot for the element UST (or maybe a built-in UST in a saddle) or maybe even a notched bridge that has the correct slot for an Element UST that when you place the UST in the slot, the pressure from the saddle (bone tusq, etc) keeps it in place, but the pickup gets the sound from the back of the saddle and the saddle could retain contact with the bridge material along the bottom, maybe retaining the best acoustic and electric response. Just a thought, but seems possible? I should state that I have had good experience with the ES2, but I bought my 717 used with no electronics, so I didn't really want to ship it off to have the holes drilled in the bridge and also installed my Anthem SL for a fraction of the cost.

[Cibby]

Originally Posted by kcnbys

Interesting. I knew micarta was Taylor's preferred material with the ES2, so I have wondered the same thing as well, since my 517 is purely acoustic. I doubt if my issues were primarily related to the micarta saddle. I'm sure it was the element UST. But the TUSQ saddle I replaced it with is providing stellar results. I may try bone at some point, but I can't imagine improving on what I've got going with the 517 now.

I wondered why on a straight acoustic Taylor didn't use the tusq saddle. On there web site the Micarta saddle is $8 more. I was going to order both bone and tusq saddle to try but no sense confusing myself. The bone has turned out great. In my email to Taylor I mentioned years ago Martins coming with Micarta and I replaced those saddles with bone. Taylor laid out in there reply how Micarta is less porous than bone and even tusq so it made a better choice for there pickup systems on there acoustic electric. Which wasn't something I asked since my Grand Pacific doesn't have one. But this ended well with the bone saddle replacement. All is good it sounds great.

[BluesKing777]

I have to say I am really enjoying experimenting with my 717e and its ES2 pickup system. I have never owned a Taylor before. I have a Boss VE8 guitar/vocal effect box which seems to make most pickups I have sound great. Don't know why. Just plug the 717e direct to the guitar input and a Shure SM58 to the vocal input - leave everything off on the guitar section and add just reverb to the vocal..harmony for fun sometimes. And the ES2 is sounding really nice! Very 'workable'.

I have the Tonedexter and a few files I made for the 717e as well. Truly superb.

Now, the Anthem.... I picked up a 2005 Gibson Dove with the full Anthem already installed and I am really liking that plugged to my Boss VE8 too! The mic section makes it nice for fingerpicking, I find - 'real'? It is not all a picnic as the soundhole control part can get a buzz and a rattle with certain notes played - I gave it a 'love tap' and it stopped but I can see that getting annoying... Apart from that, the guitar is ready for action!

BluesKing777.

[fiveoneseven]

I had a 314CE for the past 20 years with a Fishman pickup and rare earth element under the saddle.....sounded great plugged in.

Then about a year ago bought the 517e....and just thought it never sounded right plugged in...in any system. I first did the adjustment where you dial the three pickups further away and then slowly dial them back in. That improved the sound....but again....still sounded tiny....or just not right for a guitar that costs that much.

So I ordered a new bone saddle for my 517e a few days ago, comes in tomorrow.

https://www.amazon.com/Bone-Saddle-T...ruments&sr=1-1

Here's the install video from the guy who sells them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GS_kEGLR5E

I ended up doing the "wave" model which matches my current factory saddle.

With all that said, I'll install the new bone saddle tomorrow night and let everyone know the results.

[KalamazooGuy]

I am a believer in the K&K mini. Had 1 installed and I decided to do 2 more myself. You can do it.