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  #16  
Old 10-05-2019, 11:47 AM
Edgar Poe Edgar Poe is offline
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The more sturdy the built the better it can handle variations in temperature and humidity. Not so much for better tonal quality though.

Ed
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  #17  
Old 10-05-2019, 02:27 PM
whvick whvick is offline
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Default Do some guitars survive through humidity issues better than others?

I got my daughter a Martin HPL x guitar years ago, and I think it is close to impervious to humidity. I will have to play it next time I visit. I am impressed with the laminated neck...looks really solid.
And what about carbon-fiber if you are worried about humidity.? Humidity is a nuisance that almost drives me to carbon-fiber.
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  #18  
Old 10-06-2019, 12:05 AM
Dbone Dbone is offline
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Originally Posted by Edgar Poe View Post
The more sturdy the built the better it can handle variations in temperature and humidity. Not so much for better tonal quality though.

Ed
Pretty general statement to make. An LL56, for example, is a tone monster...yet it has a ply neck...

So many other factors determine overall tone. If a guitar has nothing else going for it other than a neck I suppose yer right ;-0
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  #19  
Old 10-06-2019, 12:16 AM
Jaden Jaden is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgar Poe View Post
The more sturdy the built the better it can handle variations in temperature and humidity. Not so much for better tonal quality though.

Ed
Agree in general principle. Someone like E Somogyi would describe almost all guitars being overbuilt except for his own creations, (hes just that kind of guy), but his specialty in construction is for light fingerstyle. Much is made of high performance acoustic guitars on the forum but far down the price scale one can find individual one-off instruments in a model line that are sensitive to the touch and easy to control and without volume to fill a 600 seat theatre without amplification (for couch noodling instead).
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  #20  
Old 10-06-2019, 09:40 AM
Mr. Jelly Mr. Jelly is offline
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To answer your question, yes.


I had two Waterloo guitars made exactly the same except for the finish. One reacted to the changes of the RH much more than the other.
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  #21  
Old 10-06-2019, 09:25 PM
musicwu musicwu is offline
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I would only add the entry level all solid Yamaha L 16s are built to a very high degree of precision, include the 5 ply neck (multi piece necks are employed on some high quality luthier instruments) and are carefully designed/slightly overbuilt to withstand climatic variations, all which is an extremely important consideration for a company like Yamaha whose guitars are sold all over the world.

As I said before, the 'guitar A' I mention is a Yamaha LS 16 ARE. In fact, I've owned a Yamaha LS 6 (pre-ARE) as well as two Yamaha A series guitars and none has humidity related issues. I agree that Yamahas are built slighly heavily on purpose to survive the variations of humidity around the world.

I may as well mention that other than the 5 ply neck, there is also a piece of wood block underneath the fretboard extension to make it stronger (strange that my Recording King guitar has the same thing). My AC3M does buzz when I play the high e string on higher frets but my luthier says it is due to the low action. However, the 5/64 action (low E 12th fret) on my LS 16 ARE is free from any buzz, which is amazing given that the humidity in my place is quite low throughout the year.

Regarding the sound, I might be biased. When I blind test my Yamaha L series guitars, I cannot tell the difference between them and guitars that are 2x or 3x expensive but if I just normally play the guitar I actually feel the sound is a bit bland, but that's very subjective.
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  #22  
Old 10-06-2019, 10:02 PM
Jaden Jaden is offline
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Originally Posted by musicwu View Post
As I said before, the 'guitar A' I mention is a Yamaha LS 16 ARE. In fact, I've owned a Yamaha LS 6 (pre-ARE) as well as two Yamaha A series guitars and none has humidity related issues. I agree that Yamahas are built slighly heavily on purpose to survive the variations of humidity around the world.

I may as well mention that other than the 5 ply neck, there is also a piece of wood block underneath the fretboard extension to make it stronger (strange that my Recording King guitar has the same thing). My AC3M does buzz when I play the high e string on higher frets but my luthier says it is due to the low action. However, the 5/64 action (low E 12th fret) on my LS 16 ARE is free from any buzz, which is amazing given that the humidity in my place is quite low throughout the year.

Regarding the sound, I might be biased. When I blind test my Yamaha L series guitars, I cannot tell the difference between them and guitars that are 2x or 3x expensive but if I just normally play the guitar I actually feel the sound is a bit bland, but that's very subjective.
Yes, Yamahas are very good that way. Before reading about and becoming fully aware of low humidity danger to all solid wood guitars, the first LL16 I owned by the middle of the first winter during a prolonged cold outdoor dry indoor spell, did begin to buzz so I humidified it and it was then I realized it had dried out some. It was a very rich, not woofy but clear toned guitar with the soft Engelmann spruce top and rosewood back. Unbelievable value.
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  #23  
Old 10-07-2019, 06:09 AM
archerscreek archerscreek is offline
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My cheap guitars (sub $500) were awful at maintaining good setups.
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  #24  
Old 10-07-2019, 03:52 PM
Dbone Dbone is offline
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Of note, Yamaha LL26 and above are quite a bit more lightly built compared to Yamaha units below that level. How good of a thing that is will probably be commensurate with how stable your humidity and temperature management skills are
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  #25  
Old 10-07-2019, 10:03 PM
musicwu musicwu is offline
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Originally Posted by archerscreek View Post
My cheap guitars (sub $500) were awful at maintaining good setups.

Sure, I'm not saying all cheap guitars hold themselves together better through low humidity. I've seen different results from different brands of guitars. I wouldn't name those guitars but I would say they can be good textbooks to demonstrate how an acoustic acts in low humidity. Yamahas might be an exception.
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  #26  
Old 10-07-2019, 10:30 PM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
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I have a 1967 Martin D-35 purchased in 1969 new. We lived in Idaho Falls, ID for 10 months, through a super cold winter with temperatures as low as -22F and summer temperatures well above 100F. The humidity out in Idaho Falls was extremely low, around 20% RH much of the time, and my D-35 never got a crack anywhere.

In those days I had no idea about the need for humidification. I was just extremely lucky.

A D-35 has light, quarter-inch bracing. This model has Brazilian rosewood back and sides and a sitka spruce top. But the grain on this wood is fairly close grained and fairly straight, which may have saved me. Also, the guitar was not new when we lived there in 1975, so it had probably had a chance to make a lot of internal adjustments that kept the residual stresses from causing a crack.

As dreadnoughts go, this guitar is pretty flexible, not stiff, and makes a great fingerstyle guitar, which is how I have always played it. This is not a heavily braced guitar.

I think sometimes dumb luck plays a part, sometimes the quality of the wood has a big impact. To this day, there are no cracks in this guitar anywhere. I feel incredibly lucky!

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  #27  
Old 10-07-2019, 10:35 PM
musicwu musicwu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennwillow View Post
I have a 1967 Martin D-35 purchased in 1969 new. We lived in Idaho Falls, ID for 10 months, through a super cold winter with temperatures as low as -22F and summer temperatures well above 100F. The humidity out in Idaho Falls was extremely low, around 20% RH much of the time, and my D-35 never got a crack anywhere.

In those days I had no idea about the need for humidification. I was just extremely lucky.

A D-35 has light, quarter-inch bracing. This model has Brazilian rosewood back and sides and a sitka spruce top. But the grain on this wood is fairly close grained and fairly straight, which may have saved me. Also, the guitar was not new when we lived there in 1975, so it had probably had a chance to make a lot of internal adjustments that kept the residual stresses from causing a crack.

As dreadnoughts go, this guitar is pretty flexible, not stiff, and makes a great fingerstyle guitar, which is how I have always played it. This is not a heavily braced guitar.

I think sometimes dumb luck plays a part, sometimes the quality of the wood has a big impact. To this day, there are no cracks in this guitar anywhere. I feel incredibly lucky!

- Glenn

Thanks for sharing your experience! I always think there's something special about keeping a guitar for a long time and developing some kind of bond to it. Enjoy your Martin! You've got great songs on your YouTube channel.
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  #28  
Old 10-08-2019, 12:45 AM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicwu View Post
Thanks for sharing your experience! I always think there's something special about keeping a guitar for a long time and developing some kind of bond to it. Enjoy your Martin! You've got great songs on your YouTube channel.
Thank you musicwu!

It's very nice that you took a look at my YouTube channel!

- Glenn
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  #29  
Old 10-08-2019, 04:24 AM
AndrewG AndrewG is offline
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Originally Posted by Dbone View Post
Thanks. I just got word that Yamaha Canada finally received my LL36 at their headquarters in Toronto. I hope I get it soon. It’s been quite a wait for this thing.

As for the stability of the neck. Everything I said was based on various bits of info out there that suggested they were mega stable compared to the average product out there. It is so nice to hear a direct example like this from someone like yourself. Thanks for telling me that. Gives me some extra confidence in my decision. I found the neck stability aspect appealing.

Apparently that structure adds a fair amount of labour to the price of their guitars...the layup process is apparently quite time consuming. Apparently it is worth it in terms of performance. Yamaha know what they’re doing. No doubt. They ain’t sexy to a lot of folks around here, but they are a solid product.
Yes, the necks in the Japanese L-series are very much like Lowden's in terms of their laminate construction and are extremely stable. I don't know about the newer models but on my old LL26 the laminations ran from heel to headstock. The new models have what looks to be a rosewood plate on the headstock rear-to disguise the scarfe joint (as on the Chinese models), perhaps? This is the older neck as on my 26: http://www.schoolmusic.co.kr/Shop/in...&Good_no=11949
Either way the 36 is an absolute beauty; I'm sure you'll love it.
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Last edited by AndrewG; 10-08-2019 at 04:35 AM.
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  #30  
Old 10-08-2019, 05:48 AM
Dbone Dbone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewG View Post
Yes, the necks in the Japanese L-series are very much like Lowden's in terms of their laminate construction and are extremely stable. I don't know about the newer models but on my old LL26 the laminations ran from heel to headstock. The new models have what looks to be a rosewood plate on the headstock rear-to disguise the scarfe joint (as on the Chinese models), perhaps? This is the older neck as on my 26: http://www.schoolmusic.co.kr/Shop/in...&Good_no=11949
Either way the 36 is an absolute beauty; I'm sure you'll love it.
I hope youre right in terms of my liking it. I took a bit of a chance and bought it site unseen based on the reputation of their custom shop. As Im sure you know the LL36s and similar are quite rare and hard to find. I did try a bunch of Yamahas more accessible guitars locally and I just could not get over the value proposition compared to some other more expensive options. It was the quality of their lower tier product, combined with my faith in Yamahas custom shop, that made me take the chance.

Its a lot of cash to take a chance with but sometimes you gotta go with your instincts. Ive never been one to follow the herd. I like things that are a little less common. I wont be having 15 guitars like some folks around here so I had to choose wisely. Im pretty sure I did, but time will tell I guess.
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