Entry Level Spruce/Rosewood Martin

[zoopeda]

$400 is an unrealistic budget for a solid wood, rosewood backed Martin. If your budget is flexible, the D-16 is your best bet. Otherwise, get on your Chinese made computer or tablet, and get yourself an Eastman.

[Troubador]

Originally Posted by zoopeda

$400 is an unrealistic budget for a solid wood, rosewood backed Martin. If your budget is flexible, the D-16 is your best bet. Otherwise, get on your Chinese made computer or tablet, and get yourself an Eastman.

I couldn't spend more than $400-500 on a smaller body because I already bought a HD-28.

I know it's not possible to completely avoid buying Chinese, but when I can, when I do have a choice, I do not buy products made in China.

[mrjop1975]

I am not going to say anything sarcastic or snarky, but you are living in a fantasy land if you think you can get what you were after in a solid wood guitar, made here in the States, Mexico, or in the Far East with rosewood and spruce top for around $400. Even Taylor's GS Mini with the layered or laminated rosewood back and sides made in Mexico comes in close to $600. If a restring and setup can solve the dreadnought jr. issues, than that is something I would consider. If it really is an issue, I would sell it as is and reinvest maybe into the Orangewood you were considering.

[Troubador]

Originally Posted by mrjop1975

I am not going to say anything sarcastic or snarky, but you are living in a fantasy land if you think you can get what you were after in a solid wood guitar, made here in the States, Mexico, or in the Far East with rosewood and spruce top for around $400. Even Taylor's GS Mini with the layered or laminated rosewood back and sides made in Mexico comes in close to $600. If a restring and setup can solve the dreadnought jr. issues, than that is something I would consider. If it really is an issue, I would sell it as is and reinvest maybe into the Orangewood you were considering.

I didn't know for sure; that's why I asked. It doesn't have to be all solid, else I would not be considering the Orangewood. Of course, though, I would prefer all solid wood.

I don't mean to be complaining; this D Jr still sounds better than anything I have heard at this price. I had a Washburn D28S, Martin copy made in Japan, that had a great tone, but it was a full size dreadnought, albeit with laminate rosewood back/sides. I got it for about $400, with Washburn HSC. Would have kept it but was looking for a smaller body guitar.

[El Cheapo]

It's been said before, but try different strings on your Dred jr. And while you're getting it set up properly, yank that cheap plastic saddle and put a bone one in there. Makes a noticeable improvement in the sound, as in more volume and better string to string balance. Mine sounds very good with a set of Bluegrass PB's on it. I didn't put mediums on it because I would have to re-cut the nut and spread the strings out a little. I have fat fingers and need plenty of room! I'll get to it one of these days.

[TiffanyGuitar]

I am really confused by this post. I believe Orangewood guitars are made in China, just like Eastman and, in my book, Eastman has the longer running reputation.

If I had to guess, this is the result of a GAS attack, which can really confuse the mind. Believe me, been there done that many times. I truly think I am recovered now.

My advice is to make a few minor upgrades to the D Jr, and play it. And to play the HD28. Put the energy wasted in the endless search for the next guitar or something "better" into becoming a better player. You will be happier and a better player if you follow this advice.

Meanwhile, save your money up, and if you still one day want a spruce/rosewood North American small body instrument, go search one out when you have better options in your budget.

[Neil K Walk]

Originally Posted by Troubador

The Dread Jrs are all-solid wood.

OK, I looked around and nowhere did I see anything referring to "solid" wood other than the "solid spruce top" with "sapele" (with no mention of solid)

Experience tells me that unless it's specified as "solid" then you're getting some type of laminate. There are three ways to tell:

1: the wood pattern you see inside the soundhole differs from what the "show face" of the back and sides looks like. HPL is black in color and satin in texture. Even if the grain pattern does match, there are 3 ply laminates as far back as the 1970s that were in use - something which Taylor currently uses in their 200 DLX series.

2: pull the end pin and look at the cross section of the sides in the hole. Any sort of veneer or lamination should be clearly apparent.

3: if the binding pulls away for some reason it will similarly expose the cross section of any laminated wood. I had this happen on my old Takamine D-28 clone because solid or laminate all guitars can suffer from heat stress; AR and hide glue melts regardless of what type of material is being glued together.

FWIW the closest that Martin comes to "entry level solid rosewood" is the 16RGT's (which are discontinued) or the Guitar Center custom MMV, and each only came in D and 000 size. It's also been some time since they came in at under $700 even on the used market. If you find one listed under $1500 they're a bargain in this market.

PS: if you're looking for a travel guitar to knock about I wouldn't turn my nose up at laminated sides. In the years I since formed a preference for solid wood guitars I was also introduced to the infamous key crack. The only advantage of rosewood is that it hides repairs better than mahogany.

PPS: that all being said, I highly recommend the MMV and Taylor 200 DLX models for what they are: north American made rugged and glossy gig-friendly instruments that may or may not be above what many consider to be "travel sized."

[Gdjjr]

Originally Posted by Troubador

Before I discovered the D Jr, I was intending to get one of the Orangewood smaller body guitars. The last couple of days I've been thinking maybe that's what I should have done. I could have saved some money, and Orangewood says it does a set-up on its guitars before shipping. I got the D Jr because it's all solid wood, and it was advertised as having low action, but the action is not low enough for me, so now I'm looking at spending $65 more to get a set up. And I just bought a Silver Creek hard shell classical guitar case for it. This is turning into more expense than I intended. Maybe I should have settled for the Orangewood.

I have an Orangewood Ava- it's okay but I had to sand the saddle to lower the action.

[Shadowfox]

The quick answer is no.

Also, if you think the D Jr is too bright, I don't think Rosewood will help, as the vast majority consider Rosewood to be brighter than Sepele and Hog.

[rmeyer7]

Originally Posted by Neil K Walk

OK, I looked around and nowhere did I see anything referring to "solid" wood other than the "solid spruce top" with "sapele" (with no mention of solid)

Experience tells me that unless it's specified as "solid" then you're getting some type of laminate.

From the Jr. Series page on Martin's website:

KEY SPECS
Solid Wood
¼ inch scalloped bracing
Comfort edge
000 Body Depth
Soft Gig Bag
Optional electronics

[rmeyer7]

Not as small as the Jr. Series, but a used (I guess by now they'd count as vintage?) 000M or 000R might be the closest thing to what you're looking for.

They were made with traditional laminates instead of the HPL Martin is using these days, and as a result they sounded more like wood, and more like Martins than HPL guitars.

I had a dread from that series that was every bit as good as my current solid wood Martins, and sounded better than a vintage D-18 my buddy had. It was the only laminate body guitar I can say I would've absolutely kept till I died, had it not been stolen.

The 000 models are of course a bit bigger in overall length, but have a smaller body so maybe the size would work for you. But you might also need to stretch the budget by a couple hundred dollars.

[CASD57]

I'm the King of Cheap LOL
Nothing solid in USA or Canada in your price range
Chinese,,Yes and pretty good sounding..
Eastman
Alvarez
Epiphone inspired by Gibson
on and on
But you're still going to have to pay $500 plus unless used.
Before you did anything I would try different strings on your Djr,,,
Something else I do,,,.. Try a different pick
I have 6-8 different types sitting in front of me right now and I use a different one for different songs or times.. My go-to is a Large triangle Dunlop ULTEX 1.14
but if I want bassy I use a Dunlop Tortex 1.14 or a Primetone 1.5
Last but not least.... Don't kick a Chinese guitar out until you've tried one...

[DBW]

I would think a 16 series rosewood variety would be the entry level solid wood Rosewood/Spruce Martin.

[Troubador]

Originally Posted by El Cheapo

It's been said before, but try different strings on your Dred jr. And while you're getting it set up properly, yank that cheap plastic saddle and put a bone one in there. Makes a noticeable improvement in the sound, as in more volume and better string to string balance. Mine sounds very good with a set of Bluegrass PB's on it. I didn't put mediums on it because I would have to re-cut the nut and spread the strings out a little. I have fat fingers and need plenty of room! I'll get to it one of these days.

Thanks for the suggestions. Good advice.

[Troubador]

Originally Posted by TiffanyGuitar

I am really confused by this post. I believe Orangewood guitars are made in China, just like Eastman and, in my book, Eastman has the longer running reputation.

If I had to guess, this is the result of a GAS attack, which can really confuse the mind. Believe me, been there done that many times. I truly think I am recovered now.

My advice is to make a few minor upgrades to the D Jr, and play it. And to play the HD28. Put the energy wasted in the endless search for the next guitar or something "better" into becoming a better player. You will be happier and a better player if you follow this advice.

Meanwhile, save your money up, and if you still one day want a spruce/rosewood North American small body instrument, go search one out when you have better options in your budget.

Appreciate the suggestions. I think I've probably bought my last guitar -- or if I do buy another, I won't be able to spend any more on it.

It is my understanding that Orangewood guitars are made in Indonesia. If I found any are made in China, I wouldn't buy these.