Alvarez Baritone at a blowout price at Musician's Fiend

[Brian's Twin]

Originally Posted by Mortimor

Because I thought the credit card I used to do my fret level tests might have been flexing and ruining my results, I repeated my rocker tests using a thicker, stiffer credit card and it rocks slightly on the 8th and 10th fret, leading me to believe the 9th fret is low.

Now I just have to decide how big of a problem this is.

For a fret rocking test to be valid, remove all string tension and adjust the truss rod until the neck is as flat as possible using a long straight edge to assess. I'd use a real fret rocker too, credits cards aren't really stiff enough IMO.

Then you can get an idea of which frets are actually high or low. BTW, short of replacing it, you can't really raise a fret up so you'd have to lower some if not all of the others.

[devellis]

Maybe I'm wrong, but wouldn't the relevant information be how level the frets are under tension with no relief? Rick Turner, among others, even advises leveling the frets with the neck under tension, but with zero relief. He's even made a video, as I recall, showing how to do that with lengths of angle iron with abrasive attached. The Angle iron can be slid under the strings and then moved along the axis of the fretboard to level the frets. You can then dial in the desired relief. That always made sense to me, although I'm sure it isn't the only way to do things.

The string tension will introduce relief but how much is hard to predict from a flat, unstrung neck; and putting on strings under tension is sort of an all-or-none proposition, not a calibrated adjustment like adjusting relief via the truss rod while strings are tension, with measurements along the way. If the strings are under tension (with no relief) when the frets are made level or determined to be level, then relief can be gauged in a controlled manner taking into consideration the opposing pull of the strings and the truss rod as it's dialed in.

What am I missing? As I said, I'm sure there's more than one approach.

[Mortimor]

Originally Posted by Brian's Twin

For a fret rocking test to be valid, remove all string tension and adjust the truss rod until the neck is as flat as possible using a long straight edge to assess. I'd use a real fret rocker too, credits cards aren't really stiff enough IMO.

Thank you for your advice on assessing relative fret height. I was able to scrounge up a glass knick-knack with straight edges that made for a perfect fret rocker.

I repeated the rocker test with no string tension and the neck as straight as I could get it. The results were the same.

[Brian's Twin]

Originally Posted by devellis

Maybe I'm wrong, but wouldn't the relevant information be how level the frets are under tension with no relief? Rick Turner, among others, even advises leveling the frets with the neck under tension, but with zero relief. He's even made a video, as I recall, showing how to do that with lengths of angle iron with abrasive attached. The Angle iron can be slid under the strings and then moved along the axis of the fretboard to level the frets. You can then dial in the desired relief. That always made sense to me, although I'm sure it isn't the only way to do things.

The string tension will introduce relief but how much is hard to predict from a flat, unstrung neck; and putting on strings under tension is sort of an all-or-none proposition, not a calibrated adjustment like adjusting relief via the truss rod while strings are tension, with measurements along the way. If the strings are under tension (with no relief) when the frets are made level or determined to be level, then relief can be gauged in a controlled manner taking into consideration the opposing pull of the strings and the truss rod as it's dialed in.

What am I missing? As I said, I'm sure there's more than one approach.

That approach would would be even more accurate, but not very practical if you do a lot of fret levels. Dan Erlewine promotes the method with strings off (it's in his books), and if works well enough for him, then it certainly it works well enough for me.

[devellis]

Originally Posted by Brian's Twin

That approach would would be even more accurate, but not very practical if you do a lot of fret levels. Dan Erlewine promotes the method with strings off (it's in his books), and if works well enough for him, then it certainly it works well enough for me.

That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.

[DavidE]

I received my replacement (actually, just returned the original and then got another from MF instead of GC). It plays really well, though I'm experiencing a tiny bit of the buzz others described but not enough to bother me.

What strings would you recommend if I decide I'd rather tune it to C instead of B?

Thanks~

[Earl49]

Originally Posted by DavidE

What strings would you recommend if I decide I'd rather tune it to C instead of B?

I have experimented using D'Addario EJ18 heavy gauge (59-14) tuned C-c on regular 25.5" scale guitars, as a short-scale pseudo baritone. I found the 59 can be a bit floppy and substitute a 62 gauge (0.062") single for the bass string. With the longer 27.8" scale of the Alvarez baritone, that may not be as much of a problem. Mine still has the original strings on it, since it has been in my hands less than a month and has only seen a few hours of play time.

Some people have also tried the John Pearse 3260L Baritone Acoustic Guitar light 80/20 Bronze (68-15) or the JP Open F (62-15) set 3210.
http://www.juststrings.com/jps-3210.html,

I have a set of each on standby for when my new baritone needs its first string change (which may take a while).

[s2y]

Originally Posted by Earl49

I have experimented using D'Addario EJ18 heavy gauge (59-14) tuned C-c on regular 25.5" scale guitars, as a short-scale pseudo baritone. I found the 59 can be a bit floppy and substitute a 62 gauge (0.062") single for the bass string. With the longer 27.8" scale of the Alvarez baritone, that may not be as much of a problem. Mine still has the original strings on it, since it has been in my hands less than a month and has only seen a few hours of play time.

Some people have also tried the John Pearse 3260L Baritone Acoustic Guitar light 80/20 Bronze (68-15) or the JP Open F (62-15) set 3210.
http://www.juststrings.com/jps-3210.html,

I have a set of each on standby for when my new baritone needs its first string change (which may take a while).

I have the D'Addarios on my Kronbauer. I can't tell if the strings are slightly dull or if the top needs to open up more. I have a set of Elixirs for when it's time to restring.

I'll be interested to hear how you like the John Pearse strings.

[Brucebubs]

Originally Posted by DavidE

What strings would you recommend if I decide I'd rather tune it to C instead of B?

Thanks~

I like my ABT-60 tuned C to C.
I've tried these strings;



I did like D'Addario EJ18's but that's as low as you can tune with them.
The D'Addario EFT13 Flat Tops were great brand new but have dulled up rather quickly.
My John Pearse experience is always the same whenever I try them on any guitars - OK but nothing special.
The Martin Lifespans were super noisy for me, disappointing, just too squeaky.
GHS Customs 14-18-28-38-50-60 were really nice, well made and good value.

[Earl49]

Interesting, Bruce. I find that the EXP's that it ships with to be rather bright -- almost harsh -- but that adds a nice edge or presence to the low tones. EXP's are also squeakier under my fingers than others, as a rule.

So far I keep it tuned B-b. My wife plays alto flute too, which is a fourth lower than regular flute. The B-b baritone is also a fourth lower than regular guitar. Played together, neither of us has to transpose from our normal charts.

[Mortimor]

Originally Posted by Mortimor

Thank you for your advice on assessing relative fret height. I was able to scrounge up a glass knick-knack with straight edges that made for a perfect fret rocker.

I repeated the rocker test with no string tension and the neck as straight as I could get it. The results were the same.

I brought the neck relief all the way up to .017" and the buzzing was still there on the 9th fret of the low "E" string. I brought the neck relief back down to .012" and the "A" string started to buzz on the 9th fret as well. As a point of comparison, my Ibanez AC240 and Yamaha LS16 both have a neck relief of .008" and I don't have any buzzing problems.

I am processing an exchange through Musician's Friend.

[PiousDevil]

These are $279 for the next hour as a Stupid Deal of the Hour

[Reasley]

Originally Posted by AZLiberty

I also succumbed to Wade's machinations.

Ordered the Baritone and dropped another 90 bucks on the Alvarez case.


Edit to add: Re the discussion in the other thread, it looks like the electronics are the newer soundhole mounted controls (at least in the pic it looks that way). Hopping it shows up as pictured with either no pickguard or with a clear one since I never learned how to hold a flatpick anyway.

Couple of notes:

1) I can't find the case. Can you post the link?

2) Note that if you are seeking the "more complete" electronics, you must get the ABT60E which is on sale for $406 today. So, basically, for $126 more, you get the more elaborate electronics:

"The SYS550 designed by B-BAND is a pro-level EQ and pickup that reproduces the sound of the guitar very closely with great clarity. B-BAND use a patented under saddle electret film pick up which eliminates synthetic or processed sounds often heard with piezo or other styles of pickup. The result is a very true, acoustic sound. SYS550 also has an accurate, backlit chromatic digital tuner."

3) Also, I think it is the Deal of the DAY, not just the next hour . . .

[PiousDevil]

Originally Posted by Reasley

Couple of notes:

1) I can't find the case. Can you post the link?

2) Note that if you are seeking the "more complete" electronics, you must get the ABT60E which is on sale for $406 today. So, basically, for $126 more, you get the more elaborate electronics:

"The SYS550 designed by B-BAND is a pro-level EQ and pickup that reproduces the sound of the guitar very closely with great clarity. B-BAND use a patented under saddle electret film pick up which eliminates synthetic or processed sounds often heard with piezo or other styles of pickup. The result is a very true, acoustic sound. SYS550 also has an accurate, backlit chromatic digital tuner."

3) Also, I think it is the Deal of the DAY, not just the next hour . . .

It’s listed as “Stupid Deal of the Hour.” They do this occasionally. Whether the pricing lasts all day I’m not sure, but I don’t think so.

[Reasley]

Originally Posted by PiousDevil

It’s listed as “Stupid Deal of the Hour.” They do this occasionally. Whether the pricing lasts all day I’m not sure, but I don’t think so.

Yeah, it's a bit confusing, for sure. A week or two ago, I downloaded their "Stupid Deal of the Day" app for my iPad. It is listed there. But it is also listed as their "Stupid Deal of the Hour," too, with an end time that probably just passed. My guess, as a marketing professional, is that they are using "the scarcity principle" any way they can to generate sales and both are "working deals."

To check, I just went to both the day and the hour. The baritone has been replaced on the hour with a pedal. But it is still on the day. I would guess that one could probably call them tomorrow -- when both deals are presumable expired -- and STILL get the deal if you ask . . .