Battery Powered Acoustic Amps?

[Explorer]

I've used the AC-33 for weddings in the mountains and at wineries for 200 people, and love that I can easily fly with the AC-33 and a Yamaha Silent Guitar. I got a carry bag for camera accessories as a case for the AC-33, and it's been great.

Funny... when busking with voice and an acoustic guitar or a mandolin, I've never taken an amp. I look for spaces which help with sound reinforcement, as well as crowd management.

[dannyg1]

A lot of players who use only an instrument have good opinions of amps that can't handle the dynamics of vocals. Roland amps have been the best proof of that rule for me as the hard limiting they have in line (to protect the drivers) makes the kc110 and ac33 amps a poor choice for what I do, even when I gave them power through the AC in (which double resulting amp power according to Roland.)The effect you'll hear is the guitar ducking to silence under the vocal.

Even my loudbox mini limits a little too much for my liking though I only notice it rarely.

[ricdoug]

There's easy ways to defeat the limiting on a KC110 and the AC-33 and two Stereo Linked BA-330's. I own all of those, except the KC120 snd have a friend who owns one. My vocals have a very wide dynamic range and my drill instructor voice needs very little reinforcement to project. If you have never had true vocal training, what you state is true for you. It's just the opposite for me. I'm loud acoustically and rarely blow my voice. Ric

[dannyg1]

I've had vocal training Ric. Apparantly I'm just a little more dynamic than you are.

[zhunter]

Originally Posted by roylor4

My wife and I have and will continue to busk this spring.

The Carvin and that Acus thingy look fine if you don't mind lugging some weight around. The Carvin is 25lbs and that Acus is 33.

No thanks. Not for this guy. The Cube Street EX is only 16 lbs.

I use a Mobile Cube but it doesn't sound like it has the cajones you're looking for. Hard to beat Roland for portable, light tone boxes. The AC33 looks perfect for a larger sound with battery power to me - especially for 1 person.

I also have a Mobile Cube that I occasionally bring out for hotel room practice, and while it is a workable setup it doesn't have the features or the output of the EX. Still in the right location, I could see it providing just enough sound to get you heard above background and sometimes that is all you can get away with depending on location. Are you using it for busking?

I wish the whole wattage thing could get sorted out in a way that was meaningful and honest. The gold standard is continuous RMS but, in almost every case, that is not relevant to the demand being placed on these amps by the application. With advancements in design for efficient power usage and peak demand management, continuous RMS no longer tells the whole story. Seems it really is application and demand dependent. At the extremes, running a bass rig? Continuous means more. Playing hand percussion? Peaks are where it is. Guitar and vocals are somewhere in between. But it is correct to point out that these small battery solutions cannot be putting out the continuous power that the rated wattage would suggest.

Maybe it really boils down to is it loud enough for the application. I have found some pretty small amps powered by AA batteries are plenty loud in street music situations. And in coffee houses and the like. The large battery solutions have to come into play when the demand on sound level is greater. At that point a higher price is paid in lost portability and convenience and cost.

hunter

[ricdoug]

Originally Posted by dannyg1

I've had vocal training Ric. Apparantly I'm just a little more dynamic than you are.

Could be, Danny. That previous question was just to get a little more information on your application. At local farmer's market type gigs they want the sound contained within a small area, so as not to overpower neighboring vendors. Ric

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by zhunter

I also have a Mobile Cube that I occasionally bring out for hotel room practice, and while it is a workable setup it doesn't have the features or the output of the EX. Still in the right location, I could see it providing just enough sound to get you heard above background and sometimes that is all you can get away with depending on location. Are you using it for busking?

I wish the whole wattage thing could get sorted out in a way that was meaningful and honest. The gold standard is continuous RMS but, in almost every case, that is not relevant to the demand being placed on these amps by the application. With advancements in design for efficient power usage and peak demand management, continuous RMS no longer tells the whole story. Seems it really is application and demand dependent. At the extremes, running a bass rig? Continuous means more. Playing hand percussion? Peaks are where it is. Guitar and vocals are somewhere in between. But it is correct to point out that these small battery solutions cannot be putting out the continuous power that the rated wattage would suggest.

Maybe it really boils down to is it loud enough for the application. I have found some pretty small amps powered by AA batteries are plenty loud in street music situations. And in coffee houses and the like. The large battery solutions have to come into play when the demand on sound level is greater. At that point a higher price is paid in lost portability and convenience and cost.

hunter

Yeah, we will be busking with the Mobile Cube for electric guitar and a Pignose to amplify my wifes Blues Harp. The area we will busking is in a unique little local area with several specialty food & coffee shops and bars on a corner in a pretty quiet, new-age hippy type neighborhood. I think it may function okay in that setting but will lack HP in a louder one. We are just using stuff we already have.

Hunter - I am considering purchasing the Street Cube EX but it will a online purchase if I do - I haven't played through one yet. I figure the Mobile Cube would make a good monitor for the EX. We need a loud busker and something capable of small venues too.

What is your perception in volume difference between the EX and the small Mobile Cube? I would expect 4-5X louder but would like input from actual users.

Thanks.

[zhunter]

Originally Posted by roylor4

What is your perception in volume difference between the EX and the small Mobile Cube? I would expect 4-5X louder but would like input from actual users.

Thanks.

Hard to put a number on it. Last week I rehearsed with a vocalist and a conga player. We had her voice and my guitar in the Roland. It was plenty loud on the lowest power setting. The singer and conga player were very surprised when I told em it was running on 8 AAs.

In terms of filling a space, I guess I'd say quite a bit louder. 2X, 3X who knows. Between the increased speaker size (a big difference) and more watts, it fills space much better. I took it with me to a moderate size listening, as in not loud, club this week as a backup in case the house system couldn't accommodate. Mainly because it is so quick and easy to get going. It would have been more than adequate. I wound up going into the house so I didn't need it.

Not my best sounding amp but it sounds good and the convenience and features are decent. I have a bag with a shoulder strap and it is an easy carry. I think it fits as the bridge between the Mobile Cube and a system either powered from the wall or something powered by a much larger and heavier battery.

hunter

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by zhunter

Hard to put a number on it. Last week I rehearsed with a vocalist and a conga player. We had her voice and my guitar in the Roland. It was plenty loud on the lowest power setting. The singer and conga player were very surprised when I told em it was running on 8 AAs.

In terms of filling a space, I guess I'd say quite a bit louder. 2X, 3X who knows. Between the increased speaker size (a big difference) and more watts, it fills space much better. I took it with me to a moderate size listening, as in not loud, club this week as a backup in case the house system couldn't accommodate. Mainly because it is so quick and easy to get going. It would have been more than adequate. I wound up going into the house so I didn't need it.

Not my best sounding amp but it sounds good and the convenience and features are decent. I have a bag with a shoulder strap and it is an easy carry. I think it fits as the bridge between the Mobile Cube and a system either powered from the wall or something powered by a much larger and heavier battery.

hunter

Thanks, that was kinda the info I was looking for. We have a small 300 watt PA that does good in most applications but we need something that will be busking capable, able to do solo gigs and small restaurant type gigs. Our small PA is often overkill. I couldn't believe this at first, as I used to front a 4 piece Blues band that needed 1500 watts just to keep pace with our guitarist and drummer but that was the "good 'ol days" in bars and biker joints - at 52 I have no desire for that kind of gig now. Not to mention the lack of knowledge that many owners have about space requirements for performing. It seems owners think if we can stand in an area or sit in it we can perform in it. Apparently instruments and equipment take up no space.

If we do a loud bar type gig we have the PA, my Laney and Champ 600RI for harp and your description of the sonic space it seems to fill sounds like what I am looking for.

Thanks for the info.

[TaylorByron]

Well, one inspiring gentleman suggested an Inverter and a 12v deep cycle
battery as an option. And he mentioned all up for less than 2 bills.
He was correct!
I built a system. (Being a Master Electrician didn't hurt)
Here's what I did:
Got a nice tool case from Harbor Freight. $29
Amazon sent me the Bestek 400 watt inverter. 32
bought a marine disconnect for the Battery. (Hard wired it all.) 10
1.5 amp battery charger/maintainer. 21
Battery: 12v, 20 Amp/Hour Lead gel cell deep cycle. 79 -10% deal 71
Cable terminal ends: $10
4 inch LCD blue backlit 12volt display. $12
PARTS TOTAL: $185 LABOR: 2 hours

Since the Loudbox Mini Draws 140 watts per label, and produces
60 watt audio output, If it pulled 2 amps average, I would still
get over 3 hours with it. (RMS AC measured 115.5 volts!)
After assembly, last night, I tested it, although 35 degrees out
in the garage, I was wary of hum from the inverter. The only thing
is; one has to watch out where the guitar cable is in regard to
the case. I found even six feet away to be quite adequate!

When the weather breaks and spring comes to 70 out, we'll do
a real world test with it. I am also wondering if I could utilize
2 LB mini's on the power supply. That's 300 watts on the 400 watt
inverter that states 500 watt max. Should be ok for a coupla hours.

Pictures later. If anyone is interested.

[ricdoug]

Pictures and size and weight would be interesting. Ric

[zhunter]

I think you forgot something. Other than that, if your amp is happy with mod sine wave power, you should be good to go.

hunter

[moccaguitar]

Hi,

I love my AC-33 !!
In my puristic setup i can run directly the guitars (with k&k pure minis) into the AC-33 and it sounds good without external equipment.

I use it for rehearsals and small gigs with batteries and it's easy and very compact.

For bigger concerts i use an AER compact 60
(Which also works fine!!)

[dannyg1]

Pure sine wave inverters are available for $100 on Amazon, the trick is finding one that has true .Heat activated fan. Almost all of the cheaper ones run the fan from the moment you flip the switch.

Modified sine inverters also create heat in the power supply of the amp, running the risk of killing it and definItely stressing your amp more than you need to. Couple that with the extra efficiency that a pure sine gives to the system and you'll end up with 15-20%.more battery time.

I'd think that running pure sine should be thought of as a requirement.

[dannyg1]

I meant to say that a pure sine inverter is/was part of that battery powering system for $200 that I spec'ed out in my earlier post. I've been running it for 7 months now, in all weather, and I can vouch for its utility and reliability. I've used the system almost everyday since I put it together.

The only piece that's given me trouble is the Loudbox Mini , which required a warranty repair. The inverter , charger and batteries have all held up well ( though the 26ah battery isn't holding its rated capacity now and I did reverse volt the inverter, blowing a fuse. Luckily my inverter has a fuse holder and not a soldered to the board fuse).