Mandolin ? and advice/opinions

[darylcrisp]

Hey folks

The wife and i want a Mandolin in the house. I want to get a pretty decent one for sound and playability. I have a couple hundred dollars credit at a shop that carries Gibson and Webber. Probably expecting to spend around 1500-2000. This shop carries a couple of imports(Kentucky and others).

We know very little about Mandolins. We did pick up and play a Gibson(can't remember the model but I'll find out-cost was around 2 grand) the other day and it outshined the other dozen or so Mandolins in the shop. It had an unglossed burst finish and just looked very cool-it was new, but looked old.

Guide me to any websites or forums, and as always, throw out opinions and user comments.

thanks
Daryl

[Sordid Tales]

Mandolincafe.com

That place owns me.

[Michael Watts]

Have a look at our website http://www.theacousticmusicco.co.uk for more information and a big selection of many of the top names.

[Wade Hampton]

Daryl -

Orville Gibson invented the archtop mandolin (and probably the archtop guitar, as well,) by applying violin construction ideas to these fretted instruments. Despite the subsequent Gibson company's many ups and downs, they still have made far more really good mandolins than any other firm, by virtue of their longevity and production numbers as much as anything else.

I'd say if you can afford the Gibson, buy that one. And when I say that one, I don't mean searching for a better deal on the same model elsewhere, but going back to the store and buying that very same instrument that you played and liked the most.

They vary too much from one example to the next to count on having the next one sound as good.

Hope this helps.


Wade Hampton Miller

[darylcrisp]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

Daryl -

Orville Gibson invented the archtop mandolin (and probably the archtop guitar, as well,) by applying violin construction ideas to these fretted instruments. Despite the subsequent Gibson company's many ups and downs, they still have made far more really good mandolins than any other firm, by virtue of their longevity and production numbers as much as anything else.

I'd say if you can afford the Gibson, buy that one. And when I say that one, I don't mean searching for a better deal on the same model elsewhere, but going back to the store and buying that very same instrument that you played and liked the most.

They vary too much from one example to the next to count on having the next one sound as good.

Hope this helps.


Wade Hampton Miller

Wade

thanks for those tips. That one Gibson mandolin has outshown by its voice, any others we have played around with. It just had "the sound" going on.
And I've learned, as you mentioned, that when an instrument speaks to you-buy that one, just because you find the same model cheaper somewhere doesn't mean it will be the same.

Thanks again for the insight and tips
Daryl

[darylcrisp]

Originally Posted by Sordid Tales

Mandolincafe.com

That place owns me.

thanks bigtime friend
Daryl

[Bill Pillmore]

Check out the Eastmans. They are made in China but the are a good deal. Also the Breedloves.

[HHP]

The Gibson was probably an F-9 or A-9. They are universally excellent. My playing partner has one and it would be hard to do a lot better. Another that is widely liked are the Collings A styles in a satin finish. Webers are superb as well as this is the offshoot of the old Flatiron brand bought by Gibson. Their Gallatin and Absaroka models are good values.

If it matters to you, Gibson is the best choice if down the road resale value comes into the decision.

[Fliss]

Another recommendation for Mandolin Cafe - it's THE place for info and chat about mandolins.

A fundamental question is - what kind of music do you want to play? If bluegrass, you probably want an arch top mandolin with f-shaped holes. If you are more into Celtic music, or perhaps just want an all-rounder, an oval hole might suit you better. These are not hard and fast rules of course, just a general indication. If you want to play classical music, a bowlback mandolin would be ideal - or an old (teens) Gibson oval hole.

Are you bothered about a scroll? If you are happy to go without, you will get more bang for your buck with a mandolin that doesn't have a scroll (A-style or teardrop shape.)

I don't think you'd go far wrong with a Gibson or Weber, but you could also consider some sole-builder or small shop mandolins.

If you like the vintage look, Silverangel mandolins are doing an "economy" model which is stunning and has that gorgeous vintage look, very bluegrassy.

Keith Newell is another builder making great mandolins within your budget.

Arches Mandolins would also be worth a look.

There are lots more, those are just a few that spring to mind! You might find a great deal in the Mandolin Cafe classifieds.

Fliss

[darylcrisp]

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Acou...al.aspx?Page=1

and i thought guitars were expensive!!!!

geez, these things are crazy $

well, i actually prefer the basic looks of the Jam Master A-style(really), and i'm glad.

Wow.

daryl

[devellis]

Well, not to split hairs, but I don't think Gibson invented either the arch-topped mandolin or guitar -- defined them for the ages, yes; but invented them, no. James S. Back has a patent dating from 1893 for what became the Howe-Orme guitars and mandolins. They featured what the patent refers to as a "longitudinal hump" running down the top from fingerboard to tailpiece, and it worked very well. Also, the claim of applying violin methods to mandolins was Gibson marketing hype that doesn't really stand up. The acoustics of violins, with bass bar and sound post, are very different from mandolins. Also, the Waldo mandolin had f-holes before Gibson. Gibson's major contributions -- and they were important ones -- were the adjustable bridge, adjustable truss rod, longer scale and tuning top plates on mandolins, all of which occurred during the Loar era (although only the last two were Loar contributions).

Gibson mandolins are like Martin guitars in that there are many (mostly bluegrass players) who think they define the instrument's "correct" tone. They are very good quality mandolins (I have 2) but unless you only like "the Gibson sound," they're far from the only game in town.

At any given price point, there are multiple mandolins worth considering. Probably the first thing to determine is how you'll use it. If you want to play bluegrass and chop chords, then an arched top design with f-holes is likely to serve you best. There is no acoustic reason to pay an extra grand for a scroll and some points (which, I'll admit, I've done on occasion). Acoustically, a pear-shaped (A-style) mandolin will do everything a Florentine (F-style) will do. When you get around to buying your ultimate mandolin, springing for the "cool factor" of an F-style is a reasonable (if costly) decision, just as pulling all the stops out for the ultimate guitqr is. But for a first mandolin, you'll just be getting less overall quality than you would with an A-style, because the builder (be it an indvidual or factory) will have to charge you for the considerable extra time involved in carving that fancy scroll, getting the binding on it, etc. Note that F-styles and A-styles both can have either oval holes or f-holes; so f-hole and F-style aren't the same.

If your uses lean more to old time, folk, "Celtic," or the like, an oval hole may be best. But truly, you can play any style of music on either an oval or f-hole instrument, although the latter is arguably more versatile. Bluegrassers have used oval holes, but not all that frequently.

Even more than guitars, mandolins can sound remarkably different from behind vs in front of the instrument. Oval holes aren't as bad in this respect as f-holes, which have a very focused voice. They tend to be more percussive and project more strongly than ovals, in most cases.

Flatback mandolins tend not to be as loud (or expensive), but can be very sweet. They're great if you're not needing to be heard over a bunch of other instruments.

Mandolin's narrow necks and double strings can be off-putting to guitarists. Playability thus should be given very serious attention. As with guitar, playing, listening while someone else plays, and basing a decision on tone and feel are very important. I strongly recommend getting the best mandolin you can afford. they're not cheap, sad to say, and some (but not all) of the apparent "bargains" can be pretty awful. Brands with models in your price range that are considered very good include Gibson, Collings, Weber, and a number of smaller builders that you may not find at your local music store (sound familiar?). Personally, I think Collings makes some really great mandolins for their price point. But, just as a Martin guitar player will respect a Collings guitar but prefer a Martin, a Gibson mandolin player will respect a Collings mandolin but prefer a Gibson. As with the Martin guitars, Gibson mandolins have come to define the "vintage" sound while Collings typifies the more "modern" tone. Weber is perhaps in between but they have a whole lot of models so it depends on which one you're talking about. I've had examples of all three. As a non-bluegrasser, I lean toward Collings but, frankly, there are other makers entirely that I prefer for my particular musical tastes.

[darylcrisp]

Originally Posted by devellis

Well, not to split hairs, but I don't think Gibson invented either the arch-topped mandolin or guitar -- defined them for the ages, yes; but invented them, no. James S. Back has a patent dating from 1893 for what became the Howe-Orme guitars and mandolins. They featured what the patent refers to as a "longitudinal hump" running down the top from fingerboard to tailpiece, and it worked very well. Also, the claim of applying violin methods to mandolins was Gibson marketing hype that doesn't really stand up. The acoustics of violins, with bass bar and sound post, are very different from mandolins. Also, the Waldo mandolin had f-holes before Gibson. Gibson's major contributions -- and they were important ones -- were the adjustable bridge, adjustable truss rod, longer scale and tuning top plates on mandolins, all of which occurred during the Loar era (although only the last two were Loar contributions).

Gibson mandolins are like Martin guitars in that there are many (mostly bluegrass players) who think they define the instrument's "correct" tone. They are very good quality mandolins (I have 2) but unless you only like "the Gibson sound," they're far from the only game in town.

At any given price point, there are multiple mandolins worth considering. Probably the first thing to determine is how you'll use it. If you want to play bluegrass and chop chords, then an arched top design with f-holes is likely to serve you best. There is no acoustic reason to pay an extra grand for a scroll and some points (which, I'll admit, I've done on occasion). Acoustically, a pear-shaped (A-style) mandolin will do everything a Florentine (F-style) will do. When you get around to buying your ultimate mandolin, springing for the "cool factor" of an F-style is a reasonable (if costly) decision, just as pulling all the stops out for the ultimate guitqr is. But for a first mandolin, you'll just be getting less overall quality than you would with an A-style, because the builder (be it an indvidual or factory) will have to charge you for the considerable extra time involved in carving that fancy scroll, getting the binding on it, etc. Note that F-styles and A-styles both can have either oval holes or f-holes; so f-hole and F-style aren't the same.

If your uses lean more to old time, folk, "Celtic," or the like, an oval hole may be best. But truly, you can play any style of music on either an oval or f-hole instrument, although the latter is arguably more versatile. Bluegrassers have used oval holes, but not all that frequently.

Even more than guitars, mandolins can sound remarkably different from behind vs in front of the instrument. Oval holes aren't as bad in this respect as f-holes, which have a very focused voice. They tend to be more percussive and project more strongly than ovals, in most cases.

Flatback mandolins tend not to be as loud (or expensive), but can be very sweet. They're great if you're not needing to be heard over a bunch of other instruments.

Mandolin's narrow necks and double strings can be off-putting to guitarists. Playability thus should be given very serious attention. As with guitar, playing, listening while someone else plays, and basing a decision on tone and feel are very important. I strongly recommend getting the best mandolin you can afford. they're not cheap, sad to say, and some (but not all) of the apparent "bargains" can be pretty awful. Brands with models in your price range that are considered very good include Gibson, Collings, Weber, and a number of smaller builders that you may not find at your local music store (sound familiar?). Personally, I think Collings makes some really great mandolins for their price point. But, just as a Martin guitar player will respect a Collings guitar but prefer a Martin, a Gibson mandolin player will respect a Collings mandolin but prefer a Gibson. As with the Martin guitars, Gibson mandolins have come to define the "vintage" sound while Collings typifies the more "modern" tone. Weber is perhaps in between but they have a whole lot of models so it depends on which one you're talking about. I've had examples of all three. As a non-bluegrasser, I lean toward Collings but, frankly, there are other makers entirely that I prefer for my particular musical tastes.

Bob
Thanks for all that info. Lots of pertinent stuff in those sentences. I already prefer the A-style look because of its simplicity and just the general look-and a satin finish. Just me.

Lots of new stuff to learn for sure. Sounds like its going to be a fun, interesting journey.
Both of us like "newgrass" and celtic sounds. Not so much into the traditional bluegrass. Think of the mandolin sounds in Keith Urbans band and Little Big Town.

thanks folks, keep it coming, lots for me to learn
daryl

[snkysnake]

If you get a chance , check out the Breedlove A style mandos. A Breedlove Quartz , IMHO , is hard to beat for the price. I think you can test drive them at Guitar Center.

[Wade Hampton]

Actually, Bob, I was just giving Daryl the Cliff Notes version. The main thrust of my post was to recommend that he buy the one he liked most.

While I like Gibson mandolins in the right hands, my own tastes are bit more eclectic. For years onstage I played an oval soundhole model Kentucky that was built in their high end plant in Japanese Alps (and I actually visited that facility and wrote about it in an article for Frets Magazine,) but for the past several years my main stage mandolin has been the modern National mandolin that I helped develop and design:



It has capabilities and, with its sustain characteristics, phrasing potential that are largely unavailable on traditional mandolins.


Wade Hampton Miller

[actaylor]

Another vote here for the Collings A-style mandolins. They have a great sound and I'd put them up against most F-style mandolins that I've heard. I don't own one (yet), but it's my favorite of all the mandolins I've played. Great value. You can also get them in slightly wider necks, which may be a nice option for someone who plays guitar.