Does It Really Get Any Better Than a K&K For a Solo Performer?

[PANDAPANDELO]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Out of curiosity, what issue did you have with the installation?

Hey there, Petty!

My problems. Not theirs! Teddy explained to me really well how to do it, but I have made some mistakes into placing it right. I have installed it too close to the bridge pins, and I found that it was too "energic" into some bass notes. Then, into the removal process, I damaged it. Pickups are not made to being reinstalled, over and over. And it just got extremelly thin and sad. My mistake.

The K&K is way more "fool proof", for someone with brain damage for installations, as I am. I made the installation of the Trinity System all by myself (the Pure Mini and the internal microphone), and it went great. As I said: just a little mid cut, and I am really happy with it.

PS: Teddy even told me to send him the Dazzo, so he could fix it and send me back. Really a nice and fair guy. The problem is that it took around 5 months to be here with me in the first place... and I couldn't take all that long again (and the costs for sending it back and to me again, would cost me around 70 U$). Sometimes, the postal services in Brazil are horrible.

[JackB1]

The Anthem SL beats the K&K IMO....especially for live gig use at moderate to loud volumes. I think the K&K is so popular because guys with expensive guitars that don't want an invasive installation choose the K&K. I don't think it's used much in gigging guitars....more for home/recording use.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by nightchef

…that slightly dead top end is always a bit of a buzzkill for me with the K&K.

Hi nc

I've always wanted my guitar to sound like an acoustic when I play through amps or PA.

Till December 2020, the K&K has come closest so far (dual source with internal mic), and it's still my backup.

All pickup systems involve compromise. Not SOME…ALL. Not enough high, too much bass, too much midrange, not enough oomph…the list goes on.

Of all the pickups-n-magic-cures I attempted in my first 40 years of playing, the K&K Pure mini plus Internal mic plus decent preamps came closest to THAT attempted goal, and it's the default system I've been using for the past 17 years..

A year and a half ago I switched to a ToneDexter. I drive it with the Pure Mini installed in all my acoustics, and the internal mics are STILL installed in my guitars to fall back on if something goes wrong with the ToneDexter.

I usually have the best amplified acoustic sound in the room most places I play. I'm not in a contest, and frankly…other than the audience who can truly judge. I just want it to sound great, and not distract me or the audience. I want the music to be the main feature which touches audiences, not the sound.

I just know from the point I started using a K&K dual source system with decent preamps, I'm happy with the tone and performance from the audience's perspective.

The ToneDexter elevates my live sound a notch above that for me.

[alnico5]

I have a K&K in my Taylor 412 and run into a Loud Box Mini with no external preamp. I am completely satisfied and spend no time looking for anything else. I would like to stress that for me, an external preamp is absolutely not needed. The K&K puts out a lot of juice.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by PANDAPANDELO

Hey there, Petty!

My problems. Not theirs! Teddy explained to me really well how to do it, but I have made some mistakes into placing it right. I have installed it too close to the bridge pins, and I found that it was too "energic" into some bass notes. Then, into the removal process, I damaged it. Pickups are not made to being reinstalled, over and over. And it just got extremelly thin and sad. My mistake.

The K&K is way more "fool proof", for someone with brain damage for installations, as I am. I made the installation of the Trinity System all by myself (the Pure Mini and the internal microphone), and it went great. As I said: just a little mid cut, and I am really happy with it.

PS: Teddy even told me to send him the Dazzo, so he could fix it and send me back. Really a nice and fair guy. The problem is that it took around 5 months to be here with me in the first place... and I couldn't take all that long again (and the costs for sending it back and to me again, would cost me around 70 U$). Sometimes, the postal services in Brazil are horrible.

Thanks for the background info! I actually had to send my Dazzo to Teddy to repair. I bought it used, it arrived damaged, the seller wouldn't do anything about it, but Teddy took care of it. He's a great guy. I can't say enough good things about him. The only reason why it hasn't been installed yet is because I haven't gigged in over a year and I have been teaching online quite a bit due to the pandemic so I feel like I lack the energy. Hopefully this summer that will change!

[DavidE]

The OM40 Special I recently bought here has a K&K pickup and is my first opportunity to play with one, though I think I must have had one briefly in the past since at some point I bought the simple 3 knob (4?) K&K Preamp. Anyway, I'm not sure which K&K it is, but I think I felt 3 SBT under the bridge area. It sounded really really strange straight into my Bose S1. But the K&K preamp does a nice job. I wouldn't use this guitar or pickup at my regular acoustic duo gigs which are more raucous than finesse most of the time, but I might be fine with it playing a solo gig with more pretty stuff. I really love my barn door Aura systems, the Baggs full Anthem and the Dtar 18v systems in my Turners. I do think the K&K is more prone to feedback, but I think that's to be expected.

[Br1ck]

I've already told of buying a D 35 with a K&K in it. Thought it was broken, took it to a shop and the tech plugged into a Fishman amp, and without playing a note, rolled the bass all the way off. Fiddled with the mids and said, it's working fine. Two days later I was having Teddy put in my sixth Dazzo.

K&Ks sell well. Guy walks into a shop, says I want a pickup. Store says K&Ks are popular. Guy says OK. A week later, guy is back to buy a pre with a high pass filter and three bands of parametric EQ, after witch he gets a decent sound.

I've wondered a lot about Trance. Why would I try one when I know I like Dazzos? Why would I buy any other pre than SunnAudio? I know I'll like it.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Br1ck

I've already told of buying a D 35 with a K&K in it. Thought it was broken, took it to a shop and the tech plugged into a Fishman amp, and without playing a note, rolled the bass all the way off. Fiddled with the mids and said, it's working fine. Two days later I was having Teddy put in my sixth Dazzo.

K&Ks sell well. Guy walks into a shop, says I want a pickup. Store says K&Ks are popular. Guy says OK. A week later, guy is back to buy a pre with a high pass filter and three bands of parametric EQ, after witch he gets a decent sound.

I've wondered a lot about Trance. Why would I try one when I know I like Dazzos? Why would I buy any other pre than SunnAudio? I know I'll like it.

I don't think it's that easy. The K&K is not popular because it's a simple install that's invasive and passive. It's popular because it legitimately sounds good. I know a ton of pros who use the K&K and they could literally own anything.

I think what we need to do as well is discuss eq a bit. I have had pickups that have taken me far too long to dial in at gigs. The K&K is not difficult to dial in at all, despite the fact that it seems to be getting that rep with the increased popularity of the Dazzo and Trance. It might take a quick roll off of the bass and mids and a slight increase in the treble, if you are using the correct preamp.

I am not downplaying the Dazzo at all and I plan to use one soon, but I think the K&K is getting some very unfair criticism around here lately.

[nightchef]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I am not downplaying the Dazzo at all and I plan to use one soon, but I think the K&K is getting some very unfair criticism around here lately.

Does it make sense to apply the word “unfair” to subjective judgments?

I’m inclined to suspect that part of the problem may simply be that different people have genuinely different sonic preferences & priorities, and when I call the K&K “dull” and someone else calls it “warm and woody”, we aren’t hearing differently, we just like very different sounds.

Either that, or the sound of the K&K is one of those things that’s inherently un-recordable, such that only hearing it live provides meaningful information. Such things exist (steel drums come to mind).

[PANDAPANDELO]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I don't think it's that easy. The K&K is not popular because it's a simple install that's invasive and passive. It's popular because it legitimately sounds good. I know a ton of pros who use the K&K and they could literally own anything.

I think what we need to do as well is discuss eq a bit. I have had pickups that have taken me far too long to dial in at gigs. The K&K is not difficult to dial in at all, despite the fact that it seems to be getting that rep with the increased popularity of the Dazzo and Trance. It might take a quick roll off of the bass and mids and a slight increase in the treble, if you are using the correct preamp.

I am not downplaying the Dazzo at all and I plan to use one soon, but I think the K&K is getting some very unfair criticism around here lately.

I feel the same about the K&K. Dazzo, K&K ir Trance. ALL of them will need some Eq to sound good. Will my K&K, I just set a HPF around 80-100hz and a broad cut of around 6db around 700hz. That's it! I feel the highs on it just right! Sounds like my guitar, just more "direct". With the internal Mic, It get great!

So, for me, with any good pickup, you'll only need a good Preamp as well, with sweepable mids, and you're ready to gig!

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by nightchef

Does it make sense to apply the word “unfair” to subjective judgments?

I’m inclined to suspect that part of the problem may simply be that different people have genuinely different sonic preferences & priorities, and when I call the K&K “dull” and someone else calls it “warm and woody”, we aren’t hearing differently, we just like very different sounds.

Either that, or the sound of the K&K is one of those things that’s inherently un-recordable, such that only hearing it live provides meaningful information. Such things exist (steel drums come to mind).

I am not sure to be honest. I see your point for sure and tone is 100% subject, but I just feel like lately, the K&K has had some rather negative criticism on here. More than I have seen for any pickup. I do thinks there's a difference between, "I didn't like the sound" to, "That pickup is terrible!". I am probably just reading too much into it though.

[nightchef]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I am not sure to be honest. I see your point for sure and tone is 100% subject, but I just feel like lately, the K&K has had some rather negative criticism on here. More than I have seen for any pickup. I do thinks there's a difference between, "I didn't like the sound" to, "That pickup is terrible!". I am probably just reading too much into it though.

So for a concrete example… in this clip:



Would you say the sound of the K&K is being represented accurately? If so, do you prefer it to the sound of the Anthem? If the answer to that second question is “yes”, we just like different sounds. If the answer to the first question is “no”, then maybe we’re dealing with steel-drum syndrome, because that sound is basically what I hear from the K&K in nearly every example available on the web.

[Rudy4]

K&K pure Mini direct in to Zoom R24. A touch of reverb in post, no EQ.

I've used Pure Minis in several guitars over the past several years, both for recordings and live (usually with a sound hole plug if playing in a high volume situation).

Why? Because they work, sound good, and don't require a bunch of external gear to use them. Simple and unobtrusive installation, no preamp required in many situations, and no batteries to worry about or electronics to go bad.

I like simple and easy. Pull your guitar out in 5 years and cart it off to an open mic, knowing it will simply work.

I'd use a high quality condenser (or two) if I was really after the ultimate in tone, but that's not my M.O.

[curbucci]

Remember when alot of this forum was smitten with the K&K's. So many recomendations for the K&Ks in the past. Then alot were smitten with the Schatten HFN. Currently it's the Dazzos that are getting a bunch of love around here.

[alnico5]

Originally Posted by Br1ck

took it to a shop and the tech plugged into a Fishman amp, and without playing a note, rolled the bass all the way off. Fiddled with the mids and said, it's working fine.

K&Ks want a 1megOhm input. My amp supplies it. I think all acoustic amps are made to be used with quacky piezo PUs which lack bass. The K&K has a LOT of bass.

I turn the bass almost all the way off on my Loud Box Mini and the mids almost all the way up. The tech mentioned above knew what he was doing.