Technique and tone

[Don W]

I am having difficulty with sustained barre chords on the lower frets on my classical nylon string guitar. Very hard to get clean tone. I have played fingerstyle for years and other steel string guitars for 50 years. I never had so much trouble getting good tone with barres. I am studying classical pieces now and am astonished at how much technique is involved. I play an entry level Yamaha full size and have it set up with Savarez hard tensin strings and the correct (high) string height. When I see classical players get great tone playing Bach, etc. I wonder how they do that. Am I just out of shape and a newbie at classical?.. any tips on those sustained Barre chords that are kind of a foundation for melodies?

[rick-slo]

A three hundred dollar classical guitar could have something to do with it. Try normal tension strings instead of hard tension ones.

[Cameleye]

The players you're watching may be playing guitars worth 10K and up.
Couple that with years and years of practice, right hand development, proper nail formation and care and it's no wonder you can't yet emulate that tone.
Patience, practice and eventually moving up to a better guitar will all help.

[dkstott]

Definitely give normal tension nylons a try. Your left hand will thank you for it.

[MC5C]

Make sure the nut is adjusted correctly for first position string height. Very important particularly with hard tension strings. High action is indeed a characteristic of excellent players - their expert right hand technique needs the strings to be able to move. You probably don't have that technique - you could learn with lower action and increase it only when you have developed the right hand power.

[TBman]

I'm a classical noob with the same steel experience as you. I'm playing on a Cordoba C5.

There's the difference in guitars, the pros, like others stated, are using more expensive instruments and probably all solid wood ones. I have found that normal tension strings are easier for me to get a decent tone from and have a mellower sound. I have also noticed that if a string is not struck properly with the nail, it sounds like junk.

Lastly, DAW eq'ing and editing goes a long way in making an instrument sound better.

[SprintBob]

Check out the last three issues of Acoustic Guitar magazine. Michael Chapdelaine has had a series of three excellent articles about how to develop good tone for fingerstyle guitar but definitely with a classical perspective.

[Don W]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

Check out the last three issues of Acoustic Guitar magazine. Michael Chapdelaine has had a series of three excellent articles about how to develop good tone for fingerstyle guitar but definitely with a classical perspective.

Will do...thanks

[Don W]

Originally Posted by TBman

I'm a classical noob with the same steel experience as you. I'm playing on a Cordoba C5.

There's the difference in guitars, the pros, like others stated, are using more expensive instruments and probably all solid wood ones. I have found that normal tension strings are easier for me to get a decent tone from and have a mellower sound. I have also noticed that if a string is not struck properly with the nail, it sounds like junk.

Lastly, DAW eq'ing and editing goes a long way in making an instrument sound better.

Thanks for this...I have ordered some normal tension strings. I have been using liquid gel nails done at the nail salon for years for my steel string playing and they are great. I am thinking these are not the best for nylon.I may have to sacifice some tone here as my main playing is finger style on my steel string Larrivee.

[Aspiring]

The thing I noticed when I moved over to classical guitar and some pieces is that for classical pieces and fingerings there is a greatly increased tendency to use the other fingers that tend to leave different strings open to Barre than your typical power chords e and a Barre shapes.

This brought me to the observation that I tended to not Barre all of my strings cleanly but would get away with it given that the other fingers would be fretting those strings anyway in the common chord shapes.

It also showed me how much each additional change in fingering impacts the Barre.

I went backed and studied my Barre technique and read up on additional ideas there focused a lot on my thumb / wrist position,keeping my Barre finger straight etc

I then focused on learning Spanish Romance and getting all of those barres and stretches and transitions clean. I would practice the individual transitions working backwards from the measure after the transition then add the measure with the transition then add the measure before. Obviously focusing on slow and clean first rather than speed but forcing myself to keep to the beat on all the transitions.

I've also focused on changing to the Barre with anchoring fingers and then adding / removing as needed rather than always going for all strings simultaneously

[Ceabeceabe]

Be patient with yourself. There are a host of differences between steel and classical guitars that make playing on them different. Most traditional classical guitars do not have a radiused fretboard for example, which makes playing a bar chord slightly different. Tone comes from both left and right hand technique.

In addition to the articles mentioned earlier, maybe consult scott tennant’s pumping nylon video, which you should be able to find on utube.

[Don W]

I have been using Frederick Noad Solo guitar playing.

[hesson11]

I find the notion of a "correct" string height (action) a bit problematic. While many advocate an action of 4mm (low e) and 3mm (high e) to be something of a standard, that doesn't mean it's the right action height for you. If you've been playing for 50 years, you're an older person (like me), and we're not quite as deft, strong or able as we might once have been. In addition to the suggestions for a lower tension, I'd advise you to also consider a lower action. There really is no right or wrong when it comes to having a guitar you can play well on. Best of luck.

[Carey]

Originally Posted by hesson11

I find the notion of a "correct" string height (action) a bit problematic. While many advocate an action of 4mm (low e) and 3mm (high e) to be something of a standard, that doesn't mean it's the right action height for you. If you've been playing for 50 years, you're an older person (like me), and we're not quite as deft, strong or able as we might once have been. In addition to the suggestions for a lower tension, I'd advise you to also consider a lower action. There really is no right or wrong when it comes to having a guitar you can play well on. Best of luck.

Hear, hear. What's the OP's 12f action height at present? As mentioned above, getting the nut right can make a *big* difference too, IMO.

No need at all for a 70s Ramirez-ish high action at all, I think; I'm always working to get mine slightly lower while not losing power in the basses, or buzzing too much. Relief figures in too, with many CGs having too much, and in the wrong place for best playability (too much in the first few frets, typically).

For reference, mine is currently around 3.5mm bass / 2.8mm treble, and could
go lower if I redress the frets a bit.

[Don W]

Low E 3.57 mm, High E 2.78 mm 12th fret. I'm thinking that normal tension might help a lot...got some on order...and of course a nicer guitar would help for sure but thats just not in the cards. This guitar has no truss rod and has a very straight neck and a solid wood spruce top. I like the lightness of it. I am now realizing just what a beginner I am with this type of playing...wish I started when I was young. Rethinking my fingering with barre chords is also a great idea. Thanks to all for your help. I began classical study with an instructor so I could learn standard notation which I never learned (just tab)..at the very least I have learned that. I will not be discouraged...my goal is to be able to play some classical pieces well with good tone. Getting input from everywhere is so helpful.