The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Carbon Fiber

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 02-16-2020, 05:55 PM
zeeway zeeway is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Low Country, South Carolina, USA
Posts: 448
Default Tonedexter and Emerald - finally good tone

I love the tone of my Emerald X20 unamplified. On the other hand, I have struggled to find a pickup that gave anything close to what I wanted in an amplified tone. I started with the Baggs Element, which sounded too bass heavy and muddy. At the time I had a Fishman Mini amp, and thought that may be the problem...so I upgraded to a Fishman Artist amp - better sound, but not great. Then I went to the K&K, which was better, but still not great. Then I went to the Schatten HFN, and added a RedEye preamp...still better but no cigar.

So today the Tonedexter (my new toy) and I created my first wavemap with the my inexpensive, dynamic, cardioid mike. Now, my X20 hooked through the Tonedexter/wavemap to my amp sounds very close to the natural sound of my X20. Finally. Thank you, Tonedexter.

Guess I could have saved some $ by jumping right to the last step, first.
__________________
Angie
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-16-2020, 07:13 PM
jdinaz jdinaz is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,222
Default

Sorry for you, but I bet you helped someone else. So you should feel better now.
__________________
John
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-16-2020, 07:27 PM
steelvibe's Avatar
steelvibe steelvibe is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: A mile over sea level in CO
Posts: 3,709
Default

Excellent. I think that live sound for acoustic guitar is a super hard thing to dial in, and as soon as you get a good tone, you play somewhere else and it starts all over again. You may find the same is true for Tonedexter but I think you can save several different presets? I've found you can capture decent with a good pickup and preamp and I've grown accustomed to the limitations of even that.

At any rate, congrats and good taste in gear too
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-17-2020, 06:17 AM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 3,516
Default

Are you still using the HFN?

In my RainSongs I am using an (homemade ToneDexter like) IR with my HFNs but I find the HFNs on their own to be very usable with a simple low cut (50 Hz) and high cut (9 kHz), which a RedEye is not able to do BTW.

Here is the thread announcing my free IRs for any pedal with an IR loader:

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=571361

The approach I'm taking with the IR generator is to leverage the enormous math overkill available on a PC or Mac to avoid a difficult to debug more complex approach. It generates a neutral IR that focuses on making the pickup sound like the mic without also needing low/high cut filters, complex decisions on what part of your sample to use for the IR, or EQ to remove bass boost. Here is Doug Young's review:

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=568631

ToneDexter is a very well made and complete solution.

Both those threads have rambled on for many pages and the important stuff is on page one.
__________________
Jon Fields
  • RainSong CO-PA1100NS, TKL8975, taped passive HFN
  • RainSong V-DR1100N2, TKL8810, no pickup
  • PRS S2 McCarty Thinline
  • One QSC CP8 high/behind, duo gigs no mixer
  • Two SM58, Whirlwind IMCOM, CP8 Mic Input
  • HFN, HXStomp(jf45ir), TRS cable, CP8 3.5mm Stereo Input
[email protected], www.justsoduo.com

jf45ir free DIY IR generator: http://acousticir.free.fr/spip.php?article136
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-17-2020, 09:31 AM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: The Great White North
Posts: 1,812
Default

I will also take the time to share some findings. I too use the HFN and it really became far and beyond my favorite pickup. In my wooden guitars it sounds fantastic, no issues at all. In my Emeralds with that pickup there's some weird stuff going on which I will try and explain the best I can. The X20 is not as bad but the X30 it's very noticeable. It's like the soundboard is too sensitive for a SBT. I first noticed this with my original X30 that came with the Anthem. Luckily having an offset soundhole gives you the ability to just reach in and play around with placement without having to remove the strings. I found by removing the tru mic off the soundboard changed the response of the guitar. I later found the same thing with the HFN. This will probably sound weird to most people which is understandable but I'm not imagining this. Even though the weight of the bags mic and the HFN are really low they definitely impact the soundboard, at least on my guitars. It's for this very reason that I ordered my latest X30 with the Barbera Soloist in saddle pickup. It doesn't sound anywhere close to as good as the HFN but with Tonedexter, you can make that pickup sound amazing.

I wish I still had my Rainsong or at least access to one so I can compare the soundboards in thickness and response. I know Jon has the HFN in his 3 Rainsongs with no issues. Here's a little test you can do on your Emerald, just strum a chord or note or anything at all and while it's ringing just take one finger and gently press all around the soundboard and carefully listen. On my Emeralds what I hear amazes me! Very sensitive soundboards, which I love by the way, I did the same comparison on my wood guitars and they're nowhere near as responsive.

On the X30 that I gave to my uncle I installed the tru mic on the bottom of the guitar which worked out pretty good. With some basic EQ it sounded nice.

Also, take a look at Jon's last post. His IR sounds fantastic with the HFN. I used his IR on my Godin Metropolis with HFN and got amazing results. His IR (IMO) gives more of the mic character and a fuller sound compared to the normal Tonedexter training. I tested it in a DAW first and was so happy with it that I copied it over in a Tonedexter slot. I really plan on exploring his IR with more guitars and pickup combos when I get the time. I suggest you give it a try!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-17-2020, 01:34 PM
zeeway zeeway is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Low Country, South Carolina, USA
Posts: 448
Default

Yes, I am still using the HFN. I think I could have also gotten a good result with the K&K and the TD, also (perfect hindsight).

I agree the CF top/soundboard is very sensitive. When I removed the Baggs Element with the associated tone and volume controls, and the battery bag, that made the soundboard on the X20 more responsive. Makes sense, since those pieces were like dampening weights on the soundboard.

My next step will be to make more wave maps with varying mike placements and perhaps a better mike...but with the mega improvement so far, I think I am 90% or so there.
__________________
Angie
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-17-2020, 02:41 PM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 3,516
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarLuva View Post
Also, take a look at Jon's last post. His IR sounds fantastic with the HFN. I used his IR on my Godin Metropolis with HFN and got amazing results. His IR (IMO) gives more of the mic character and a fuller sound compared to the normal Tonedexter training. I tested it in a DAW first and was so happy with it that I copied it over in a Tonedexter slot. I really plan on exploring his IR with more guitars and pickup combos when I get the time. I suggest you give it a try!
Could I quote this on the Acoustic Amplification thread?

When I started this project 6 months ago all I wanted was to be able to independently generate IRs for my HX Stomp (and not have to bother Cuki79 everytime I bought a guitar or pickup).

I'm hoping this IR generator takes off and is the Linux of acoustic guitar IRs. Probably irrational... but at least it is really open, open source.

I gigged yesterday with my CH-PA and one of my IRs. I found in performance that same low and high cut I like without an IR still added value. Yesterday's performance (I've only been able to generate IRs for a few weeks at this point) was the most happy I've ever been with my amplified tone. I also use a bit of plate reverb and the LA compressor for single note solo boost.
__________________
Jon Fields
  • RainSong CO-PA1100NS, TKL8975, taped passive HFN
  • RainSong V-DR1100N2, TKL8810, no pickup
  • PRS S2 McCarty Thinline
  • One QSC CP8 high/behind, duo gigs no mixer
  • Two SM58, Whirlwind IMCOM, CP8 Mic Input
  • HFN, HXStomp(jf45ir), TRS cable, CP8 3.5mm Stereo Input
[email protected], www.justsoduo.com

jf45ir free DIY IR generator: http://acousticir.free.fr/spip.php?article136
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-17-2020, 03:24 PM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: The Great White North
Posts: 1,812
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonfields45 View Post
Could I quote this on the Acoustic Amplification thread?
Yes, absolutely!
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Carbon Fiber

Thread Tools



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=