Bone vs ebony pins

[MThomson]

Originally Posted by Brucebubs

Am I reading these figures wrong or is the decimal point missing in Bruce's pictures?

Bruce bone = 63g ... Alan bone = 8.5g

Bruce ebony = 37g ... Alan ebony = 5g

Factor of 6 difference. Bruce's pictures measure a set of 6 pins, Alan is talking about single pins.

[redir]

IT just depends on how your scale is set. But none the less the numbers show that bone pins are nearly twice the weight.

[Bruce Sexauer]

Originally Posted by Brucebubs

Am I reading these figures wrong or is the decimal point missing in Bruce's pictures?

Bruce bone = 63g ... Alan bone = 8.5g

Bruce ebony = 37g ... Alan ebony = 5g

I am getting cataract motivated lens replacement surgery soon myself, but I can see the decimal point on the scale. Perhaps because I know it’s there. Also, reason tells me that no set of bridge pins weighs a half a pound.

[Alan Carruth]

MThomson wrote:
"Factor of 6 difference. Bruce's pictures measure a set of 6 pins, Alan is talking about single pins."

No, the weights I listed were for a set of six solid (not slotted) pins. I just checked another set of bone pins, and got the exact same reading I did a decade or so ago: pretty darn consistent. Bruce's may have been slotted? At any rate, these things are not so standardized that the difference would be out of line if you slip in the decimal point in his numbers.

Bruce Sexauer wrote:
"I believe I am right (ha) when I say that as long as nothing is loose, all parts of the bridge act as one monolith."

I'd have to agree with that up to a pretty high frequency; somewhere near 1000 Hz at least. Since all of the string vibration is supposed to end at the saddle (and you've got obvious trouble when it doesn't) what really matters is the mass of the pins.

I have used a lot of different materials for bridges, and that's one way to get more control over the mass and other factors. I tend, for example, to use walnut for bridges on cedar and redwood tops. Both have low splitting and peel resistance, so it's useful to keep the maximum stress in the glue line, which happens along the back edge, low, so as not to exceed the peeling strength of the top. Making the bridge wider; deeper along the line of pull, reduces that very effectively, which is why 'belly' bridges work. However, if you use a dense rosewood or ebony you can end up with a really heavy bridge, which cuts down on the high frequency response. Walnut is a lot less dense, so the bridge can be made both larger in outline and thicker without adding too much mass. It's a good idea to make the saddle slot a little further back from the front edge, to reduce the chance of splitting out, and tipping the slot back (as sen from the side) can effectively eliminate that issue. Walnut doesn't have higher damping than ebony, if that is a concern: so far I have not heard or measured any difference in tone I could confidently attribute to bridge damping. That would mostly show up in the high frequency range, which a light bridge favors, so maybe if damping is an issue it's cancelled out by the lower density.

[12barBill]

Does anyone know the weight of Graph Tech TUSQ bridge pins in relation to ebony and bone?

[tadol]

I think this also runs straight into the "if it looks better, then it sounds better" theorem - part of the >cost=>tone, light woods sound brighter and dark woods sound darker, and "if so-and-so uses it onstage, its gotta be good" conundrum - facts start to have less and less value the further you look into it -

[euraquilo]

Originally Posted by Alan Carruth

Peter Schickele said that: "Truth is just truth; you can't have opinions about truth".

Is that the "PDQ Bach" Peter Shickele?

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by 12barBill

Does anyone know the weight of Graph Tech TUSQ bridge pins in relation to ebony and bone?

I just weighed a set of 6 pins. 6 grams.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by euraquilo

Is that the "PDQ Bach" Peter Shickele?

How much stock can you place about knowledge of the "truth" from the guy that invented the Dill Piccolo?

[euraquilo]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

How much stock can you place about knowledge of the "truth" from the guy that invented the Dill Piccolo?

Not to mention the Tromboon (cross between a trombone and bassoon, "having all the disadvantages of both") and the Proctophone (a latex glove attached to a mouthpiece, and "the less said about it, the better").

OK, back to our regularly scheduled forum discussion.

[Alan Carruth]

Charles: thanks for the number.

euraquilo:

Yes indeed. Shickele is actually a knowledgeable musicologist and a capable composer, who used his sense of humor to make composing pay. The 'truth is just truth' line is on the 'Wurst of PDQ Bach' album, iirc He mentions that the keyboard composer Scarlatti abandoned hand crossings in is later works when he became too fat to cross his hands, and the audience titters. At this, Schikele takes an offended tone, saying: "That's true you know", followed by the quote I gave. He laments the fact that 'nobody takes these concerts seriously', and then goes on to say that PDQ stopped writing solo keyboard works entirely when he got too fat to reach the keyboard. "He did develop a way of playing side saddle, however, but he could not reach all the notes, so if you see a reference to a work for 'two violins and discontinuo', that stems from this practice of PDQ Bach". My experience is that the more you know about music, the funnier PDQ gets.

We worked on his 'My Bonnie Lass she Smelleth' in college chorus; not an easy piece, by any means, but lots of fun.

If you can find any of the 'Schikele Mix' programs that aired on NPR they're a treat. He will discuss cantus firmus, and then give an example from Navaho music, or go to Duke Ellington for a fugue. It's all music, folks.

[euraquilo]

Originally Posted by Alan Carruth

My experience is that the more you know about music, the funnier PDQ gets.

Great [off-topic] stuff here! I was introduced to PDQ Bach by my high school band director way way back when Shickele was swinging from a rope onto the stage for his live concerts. I've had a number of the albums as well as the book. Hilarious stuff that, again, only music history and theory folk can fully appreciate. I've often told people about side-splitting (to me) musical jokes perpetrated by Shickele only to face a blank stare.

Thanks for the walk down memory lane.