Fishman Rare Earth Blend sounds horrible when connected in stereo

[JonnyBGood]

I have the latest version of the Fishman Rare Earth Blend. If I connect a mono guitar cable it sounds fine and the pickup blend control gives me 100% magnetic through to 100% mic. I find the mic rather bright and harsh, OK if mixed in with the mag I guess but much brighter than I am used to with internal mics.

But anyway, my main problem is this - if I connect a TRS cable, as per the manual, it splits the signal allowing me to mix the signals separately, but the sound I am getting from the mag is really bad - dull, thick, some distortion, lots of lower mids and no clarity. Its like someone has thrown a pillow over my speaker.

The stereo cable I am using is custom made with Neutrik connectors - i.e expensive, and I have tried plugging the magnetic output straight into my PA to ensure its nothing else in the chain causing the problem (it isn't).

Changed the batteries for new ones also, no difference.

Any ideas what might cause this?

[jonfields45]

What are you plugging the separate tip and ring outputs into? Is it possible you are putting tip into a very low impedance input?

[Doug Young]

A low impedance input would likely produce a thin bright sound, not thick and muffled.

But this does beg the question - what are you plugging into in each case? A mixer, amp, preamp, DI? More details needed.

How about a recording of what you are hearing?

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

A low impedance input would likely produce a thin bright sound, not thick and muffled.

True for a passive piezo (series capacitance -- a high pass filter) but it's hard to know how the Fishman active circuit might fail under the wrong conditions. For a passive electric guitar, too low a load impedance will sound muffled (the pickup impedance has significant series inductance -- a low pass filter). Electric guitars sound terrible into mixer mic inputs. However, this is not the problem here.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

But this does beg the question - what are you plugging into in each case? A mixer, amp, preamp, DI? More details needed.

Fishman Rare Earth to TRS/Y cable then:
Magnetic PU> Boss AD10 via line out (set dry with EQ flat) > Fender Passport (line in)
Mic > Headway EDB1> Fender Passport

Also tried plugging the split magnetic signal direct to PA: Fishman > Fender Passport, same result

Remember, the mag pickup sounds fine via both the same routes when I connect a standard mono cable (and turn the blend control on the pickup to output the magnetic pick up only). It's only when I split the signal that the magnetic PU output sound is deteriorated.

If you guys think this is an impedance issue, I could try the split magnetic signal via the Headway later as it has switchable impedance inputs.
Feels to me more like a wiring issue in the jack socket or my cable plug, but electrics is not my strong point...

[lkingston]

It seems to me that separating the magnetic pickup from the mic would also bypass whatever preamp is built into the REB, at least for one of the signals (likely the magnetic), so you are probably hearing the magnetic pickup in passive mode. It would probably sound fine if you used an external preamp on the magnetic pickup signal.

[jonfields45]

Time to call Fishman.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by lkingston

It seems to me that separating the magnetic pickup from the mic would also bypass whatever preamp is built into the REB, at least for one of the signals (likely the magnetic), so you are probably hearing the magnetic pickup in passive mode. It would probably sound fine if you used an external preamp on the magnetic pickup signal.

But that's what I did do, the AD10 *is* an external preamp.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

If you guys think this is an impedance issue, I could try the split magnetic signal via the Headway later as it has switchable impedance inputs.
Feels to me more like a wiring issue in the jack socket or my cable plug, but electrics is not my strong point...

I'd try anything you can think of, but I don't think this has to do with impedance. I had forgotten that the Rare Earth blend is active, so the behavior with an impedance issue might be a bit different than a passive piezo, but the whole point of an active pickup is to buffer you from impedance issues. With most active pickups you can plug into ridiculously low impedances with no issue. And your Boss AD10 is designed for acoustic instruments, so it surely has a high input impedance.

I'd be very surprised if wiring the REB in stereo bypassed the electronics - that's something that would be worth calling out in bold print, and the fishman manual doesn't mention it. All you do to go stereo is move one wire - the mic wire, hard to imagine how one would engineer a complete circuit re-routing with that.

Since we can't hear what you're hearing, it's hard to diagnose. Maybe you're just hearing the magnetic part alone when you aren't blended to mono - and that's what the mag sound like without the mic to add some air? Hard to know.

I agree, I'd call fishman and see if they can help.

[Doug Young]

Jon, when you run your pickup in mono, are you using the special adaptor cable (not just a TRS cable) that Fishman describes in their manual?

https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/u...tall-Guide.pdf

This is interesting.

I have that pickup and it was already wired for stereo. I don’t run it in stereo and I don’t use a special adapter — mine sounds fine.

[Doug Young]

yeah, I don't know. I just looked at my REB, but it's pretty old, and doesn't even have a black wire as described in the manual. I assume this is a newer feature.

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Jon, when you run your pickup in mono, are you using the special adaptor cable (not just a TRS cable) that Fishman describes in their manual?

https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/u...tall-Guide.pdf

If it is possible for you to do easily, you should check to see how your pickup is wired to the Fishman/Switchcraft Switch Jack. I've wired a few of them over the years and they are trickier to deal with than the diagram indicates (the terminal lengths were not so cleanly long to short) and it is possible to do it wrong. Given the complexity of a Switch Jack, I would not be surprised if maybe your's failed or has a marginal contact.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Jon, when you run your pickup in mono, are you using the special adaptor cable (not just a TRS cable) that Fishman describes in their manual?

https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/u...tall-Guide.pdf

Doug I think you may be confusing with an earlier version of the pick up. No special cables required for mine and I have not had anything installed or rewired by anyone. Mono or stereo operation is determined by whatever cable you plug in. See page 10 of my manual here:

https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/u..._UserGuide.pdf

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Doug I think you may be confusing with an earlier version of the pick up. No special cables required for mine and I have not had anything installed or rewired by anyone. Mono or stereo operation is determined by whatever cable you plug in. See page 10 of my manual here:

https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/u..._UserGuide.pdf

It does seem there are many versions of the Rare Earth. I was looking at this:

https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/u...tall-Guide.pdf

From only 2 years ago, but apparently out of date. My own REB is also totally different from either of these.

I'd call Fishman with your question!