Practice makes perfect

[tomiv9]

Theres a book, called Outliers, which states that in 10,000 hours of practice you can master anything. It cites numerous cases, not sure it's true for everyone, but for alot it prob is

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by tomiv9

Theres a book, called Outliers, which states that in 10,000 hours of practice you can master anything. It cites numerous cases, not sure it's true for everyone, but for alot it prob is

For example five hours a day six days a week for six and one half years.


Problem with that idea is that people without much talent, and therefore not making much progress,
and therefore discouraged, will drop out way before that much time spent. It's a self selective group.


Also start your musical training at an early age.

[Imbler]

My wife and I were fortunate enough to have a private "meet and greet" with Tommy Emmanuel.

When they led us backstage before the performance, he was doing slow practice to a metronome.

I found that very inspiring that even someone as accomplished and talented as him goes through the same process we do.

[SoCalSurf]

Anders Ericsson wrote the seminal paper on what the 10,000 hour rule cited by many subsequent experts drew from. It is the Theory of Deliberate Practice. According to Ericsson, expert performance requires a minimum of 10 years and 10,000 hours of deliberate practice, which must include:

1. An intrinsic motivation and desire to get better
2. Clear and immediate feedback and knowledge of performance
3. Extended focus of attention for long periods of time

For those interested, the paper can be found at http://projects.ict.usc.edu/itw/gel/...acticePR93.PDF

[musicman1951]

Originally Posted by guitar george

There is an old saying that "Practice makes perfect" which is intended to mean that if you practice something over and over enough times you will eventually be able to do it perfectly. Is a lot of practice all that's needed to become a great guitar player?

This old saw is, in many aspects, a stupid saying.

First, the goal should be playing as musically as possible. Humans do not do a lot of perfect playing. I can put any music into my computer and it will play the notes "perfectly" every single time. I promise you will not enjoy listening to this perfect music.

Second, practice makes permanent (very different from perfect). My version, "Whatever you do often you do well." If you play with poor hand position you will eventually get very good at playing with poor hand position. In fact, you will find it very difficult to stop playing with poor hand position - that's the permanent part. Muscles are stupid - they will learn anything you make them do over and over.

Yes, all great guitar players spent many hours practicing. But there are players who spent many hours playing who are pretty good players, but will never be great. It takes more than great technique to be a great player.

Great music is about magic, it's about soul, it's about things that can't be described with words. You can't be a great player without long practiced great technique - but it's a lot more than that.

So in answer to your question: no.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by guitar george

There is an old saying that "Practice makes perfect" which is intended to mean that if you practice something over and over enough times you will eventually be able to do it perfectly. Is a lot of practice all that's needed to become a great guitar player?

Steven Wright: Somebody told me practice makes perfect. Then somebody said, "Nobody's perfect," so I stopped practicing.

scott memmer

[vindibona1]

Originally Posted by dneal

This.

Practice makes permanent.

If I may modify that a bit... YOUTH and practice makes permanent .

What you learn as a kid gets built into your DNA. What you learn as an older adult is much more difficult to make permanent. My sister-in-law was born in Austria and came here at age 4 or 5. She never uses it and hasn't since coming here, but she can still speak German when needed. The daughter of a couple I know came her from Russia at age 9 not speaking a word of English. By age 10 she was a blabber-mouth. But how many of us can study a foreign language (even seriously) as an older adult and get anywhere with it? Same thing with music. We can learn to play as a kid, probably be good enough to play in a band within months of taking up the instrument, take many decades off and yet be back up to speed in mere weeks. Older adults learning to play? Different story.

[rokdog49]

I believe you can improve dramatically with consistent, good practice. I know it's helped me a lot.
Your ability to be a great or even good guitar player still hinges on your degree of talent. Guys like Keith Urban play and practice everyday for hours.
Most of us could practice more than Keith and never play as well as he does.
That isn't to say one can't be good. How good? Talent plays a huge role in that equation.

[Monsoon1]

Originally Posted by tomiv9

Theres a book, called Outliers, which states that in 10,000 hours of practice you can master anything. It cites numerous cases, not sure it's true for everyone, but for alot it prob is

Came in here to post this.

[Golffishny]

Playing and noodling a couple hours a day does not accomplish what a half hour of focused practice with a purpose each day does. I've been a witness to both sides.

[KevWind]

Couple of observations. There have been a number of excellent replies so I will basically recap

Originally Posted by guitar george

There is an old saying that "Practice makes perfect" which is intended to mean that if you practice something over and over enough times you will eventually be able to do it perfectly. Is a lot of practice all that's needed to become a great guitar player?

First: Like most adages "Practice makes perfect" while holding a spark of truth, is at the same time also is so simplistic and subject to a number of variables as be fairly useless in terms of specifics and method.

Second : one would have to define " great" because the answer to

"Is a lot of practice all that's needed to become a great guitar player ?

is Yes, and No, and maybe, and maybe not.

Also the notion of 10,000 hours of practice to master something, is much the same Yes, No , Maybe , Maybe not. As well as being fundamentally flawed.
Because the number of hours of practice or the time frame, is irrelevant.
It is the number of correct repetitions that makes for productive practice .
It is the number of correct repetitions that converts conscious muscle movement into subconscious muscle memory, which also varies greatly per individual and per the complexity and difficulty of the movement itself .

When the movements have been converted into memory that is when the creativity can really begin .

Depending on definition, the great ones have both practiced enough to be at muscle memory, and have the creative talent to move it to the next level.

[taylorgtr]

Originally Posted by GGSanders

One thing is certain, you definitely will not even become accomplished, let alone great, without it. And, perfect practice is the key.

Great players admit to hours of daily practice just to keep that edge sharp.

Practice makes permanent. If you want to play well @ speed, you have to do it like Covert Bailey said about getting in shape.

"Start so slowly that people make fun of you."

[menhir]

I'll jump on the "Perfect Practice makes Perfect" wagon.

For me, the purchase of an acoustic amplifier made this painfully plain and clear...I was letting a lot of little fluffs go by that were unobtrusive while playing unplugged in my easy chair.
They became depressingly obvious when amplified.
It was a humbling experience and a real eye(ear)-opener.

I've spent a lot of time since then trying to clean up my act, so to speak.


I now think that playing through an amp from time to time and/or recording oneself and listening to the playback is a good motivator toward getting some extra perfect practice time in.

[ripdotcom]

If I don't practice one day, I know it; two days, the critics know it; three days, the public knows it.

Jascha Heifetz.


I often find the you tend to master a song just about the time you start to get sick of it. I think thats what Tom Waits was talking about in the Bone Machine Instruction Manual. A song is like a bar of soap, thats about how long it lasts.

[beninma]

I'd jump on that "practice makes perfect" wagon too.

I'm far from perfect but it's working for me.

I've been taking lessons about 20 months... I stared playing on my own in my late 30s and started taking lessons a bit before my 40th birthday. There was lots of frustration self-learning & the first year of lessons but I kept practicing what I was supposed to how I was supposed to. Re-practicing stuff to train out bad habits is really tought! But that focused/teacher-guided practice has really helped.

The last 4-5 months stuff is just clicking into place all of a sudden and it's really rewarding... stuff like no longer needing to look at my fretting hand for a lot of the common chords. Barre chords no longer a big deal. Can hear what chords other people are playing if I screw up and need to jump back in.. can keep time on my own, being able to double-track myself in time with the looper, getting control of dynamics and being able to selectively hit the right strings, picking up fingerpicking with relative ease, etc.. Really rewarding stuff!