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  #16  
Old 11-14-2018, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
OK, a couple of measures:

Hmmm . . . that's a bit different than how I hear things. Measure 3 in particular. That particular lick is a classic Gary Davis move and I've seen multiple transcriptions that show the second note going to the 4th fret. That song is just a modification of Tryin' to Get Home. In fact, the same 4 note sequence appears in another of his songs, I Am the Light of This World, where the second note goes up to the 4th fret. That's the way Jorma plays that lick as well.

The lead in is almost arpeggiated, but it's more like a fast triplet.

Anyway, you're timing is much, much better than mine. I think Doug's point is a good one. You can get the gist of the song with 1/4 notes and 18th notes, though it will sound mechanical. Putting the right feel into the song is much easier to do in practice than it is to try to tab it out.

My main goal in the exercise was to get all the little subtleties and changes that Jim makes in subsequent lines. Although the general structure of the song can be learned fairly quickly, it's those little subtleties that I want to add to my "bag of tricks," which is why I took the time to tab it.

Thanks for doing that. It shows how complicated things can get if you want to nail the timing in the transcription.
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  #17  
Old 11-14-2018, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by justonwo View Post
Hmmm . . . that's a bit different than how I hear things. Measure 3 in particular. That particular lick is a classic Gary Davis move and I've seen multiple transcriptions that show the second note going to the 4th fret. That song is just a modification of Tryin' to Get Home. In fact, the same 4 note sequence appears in another of his songs, I Am the Light of This World, where the second note goes up to the 4th fret. That's the way Jorma plays that lick as well.

The lead in is almost arpeggiated, but it's more like a fast triplet.

Anyway, you're timing is much, much better than mine. I think Doug's point is a good one. You can get the gist of the song with 1/4 notes and 18th notes, though it will sound mechanical. Putting the right feel into the song is much easier to do in practice than it is to try to tab it out.

My main goal in the exercise was to get all the little subtleties and changes that Jim makes in subsequent lines. Although the general structure of the song can be learned fairly quickly, it's those little subtleties that I want to add to my "bag of tricks," which is why I took the time to tab it.

Thanks for doing that. It shows how complicated things can get if you want to nail the timing in the transcription.
Yep, agree about the Eb rather than an E. Corrected that Timing and the rest is correct as is. Also changed to the
triplet 3 in the time of 2 rather than the 6 in the time of 4 since people are less familiar with irregular note grouping
indications.

Using quarter and eighth notes in place of triplets and hoping people will figure it out is a stretch. Specifying ragtime
feel might work for some people but leave other people in the dark. I normally find triplets easy to interpret timing wise.

In addition to the note timing you want to pay attention to beat accents. So in this 4/4 meter the first little 1/16th G
note serves as a lead in to where the tune takes off on the first beat of the second measure. That lines up the beats for
the rest of the measures.

Here is the midi of the tab (repeated twice)
http://dcoombsguitar.com/Misc/AGF1114.wav
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Last edited by rick-slo; 11-14-2018 at 01:32 PM.
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  #18  
Old 11-14-2018, 01:26 PM
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Rick, the big thing in your tab, is that I think you're off on where 1 is. Those first 3 notes are pickups. The first C chord is the downbeat. The 2 notes you have as just E and G is the backbeat - on 2.

In any case, hopefully Juston sees from these different interpretations that transcribing is never straightforward - it's an art at best, with different ways to do it.
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  #19  
Old 11-14-2018, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
Rick, the big thing in your tab, is that I think you're off on where 1 is. Those first 3 notes are pickups. The first C chord is the downbeat. The 2 notes you have as just E and G is the backbeat - on 2.
Have to disagree with that. Pretty clearly IMO it makes more sense and flows better as I tabbed it. For example you want the beginning of the triplet bit to start on beat one and have that little passage end on beat four.
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Last edited by rick-slo; 11-14-2018 at 01:38 PM.
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  #20  
Old 11-14-2018, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
Have to disagree with that. Pretty clearly IMO it makes more sense and flows better as I tabbed it. For example you want the beginning of the triplet bit to start on beat one and have that little passage end on beat four.
more evidence that tabbing isn't a science, and that different interpretations are possible :-)

But count on into where the verse starts - this is the intro. See if you still think you're on 1 when the verse starts. Maybe you will, but that's not how I hear it.
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  #21  
Old 11-14-2018, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
Yep, agree about the Eb rather than an E. Corrected that Timing and the rest is correct as is. Also changed to the
triplet 3 in the time of 2 rather than the 6 in the time of 4 since people are less familiar with irregular note grouping
indications.

Using quarter and eighth notes in place of triplets and hoping people will figure it out is a stretch. Specifying ragtime
feel might work for some people but leave other people in the dark. I normally find triplets easy to interpret timing wise.

In addition to the note timing you want to pay attention to beat accents. So in this 4/4 meter the first little 1/16th G
note serves as a lead in to where the tune takes off on the first beat of the second measure. That lines up the beats for
the rest of the measures.

Here is the midi of the tab (repeated twice)
http://dcoombsguitar.com/Misc/AGF1114.wav
Sorry, I didn't mean to leave out triplets. I believe they should be used. I usually tab with mostly quarter notes, eight notes, and triplets. I'll end up doing dotted notes if it's really important to the feel, but I don't usually spend a ton of time trying to get the feel exact because that's much easier to do intuitively and I'm just not facile enough with getting it right anyway.

I also think of the C as the first downbeat, and I've seen that song tabbed with the C as the down beat in other places. But it does underscore one critical fact . . . this stuff isn't obvious and easy!
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  #22  
Old 11-14-2018, 02:15 PM
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more evidence that tabbing isn't a science, and that different interpretations are possible :-)

But count on into where the verse starts - this is the intro. See if you still think you're on 1 when the verse starts. Maybe you will, but that's not how I hear it.
More effective with beat one on G chord and the little more delay before reaching the triplets give them a better effect. That how I would play it. About eight seconds in there is a little extra beat before the new section starts. I guess that is what you are referring to. I would not sacrifice the beat alignment of the first part to make the transaction to the new section, I would just accept that he plays an extra beat. I have on occasion written tunes that do that. Often a phrase line extends over a certain number of beats aligned with measure intervals. The phrases that my ear hears fits better into discrete measures the way I tabbed it. That's how I would interpret it.
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Last edited by rick-slo; 11-14-2018 at 03:22 PM.
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  #23  
Old 11-15-2018, 12:05 PM
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FWIW I agree with Doug about the timing. It works naturally in 4/4 if you take opening notes as a pick-up, as he's tabbed it, so the C roots fall on beat 1. It then works in 4/4 all the way - for 16 bars anyway, where you get a repeat of the intro on beats 3 and 4.

But then in the next section there's one 3/4 bar (0:42)! (Yep just one...) I suspect this is Steinke copying a mistake of Davis's. (Which is not to say that Davis wouldn't sometimes consistently insert 2/4 or 3/4 bars here or there.)
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Last edited by JonPR; 11-15-2018 at 12:31 PM.
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  #24  
Old 11-15-2018, 12:28 PM
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Many times meter is not consistent, either purposely or during live play accidentally, especially within transitions. In the second case if someone is transcribing from that then... Generally I start off listening
to phrases to make decisions as I did here.
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  #25  
Old 11-15-2018, 12:31 PM
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Here's how I'd tab those opening few bars (sorry if this is a bit big...)



(That "V" sign indicates a strum)

EDIT- fixed a wrong note.
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  #26  
Old 11-15-2018, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
Many times meter is not consistent, either purposely or during live play accidentally, especially within transitions
Sure, but in this case it is consistent all the way up to when that opening phrase returns (and also fall on 3 and 4).

I mean, I agree with you about how that opening sounds at first - I wasn't sure whether that was on beat 1 or 3 - but listening to more of it, it works better as beat 3 (IMO).
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Old 11-15-2018, 12:58 PM
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Transcribing is always a process of making lots of revisions :-) I noticed that Jon has the opening note as D, and I had it as G. Jon's right, I probably slipped and clicked on the wrong string, and never went back to check it - you really have to check, and recheck every note, and then have someone else check it, if you're trying for accuracy. Much like proof-reading text, you can even look right at something that's wrong, play it correctly, and not even notice that you're not playing what's written. It takes someone else trying to play it to notice!

Finding 1 is a really important step. On a tune like this, there's a strong groove, but you might not lock in on it unless you just sit back and listen, tapping your foot. On a tune like this, most people will gravitate toward the right downbeat fairly quickly. It'd be really had to keep tapping your foot while off by 1 beat. It's easy, tho, if you just start tabbing, to enter the 1st note, then the 2nd, etc and just keep going without establishing where the first downbeat is and get it off by 1 or whatever. The markers in transcribe are nice for this, just tap your fingers on the M key to the beat. Hard to nail that 1st downbeat tho, since the groove isn't quite established yet. but once you find it, you can go back and mark the initial beats.

I've been messing with a new tabbing thing called soundslice, and it's interesting in that you can also mark the beats and it synchronizes the tab ("bouncing ball" kind of thing), while playing the original music. Somehow the visual of the tab moving along with the music helps see timing errors to some extent, at least in a broad sense.
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  #28  
Old 11-15-2018, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonPR View Post
Sure, but in this case it is consistent all the way up to when that opening phrase returns (and also fall on 3 and 4).

I mean, I agree with you about how that opening sounds at first - I wasn't sure whether that was on beat 1 or 3 - but listening to more of it, it works better as beat 3 (IMO).
and into it at about 24 seconds we are right back on beat with the way I interpret the open first beat. The guy likes to add in an extra beat here and there on transitions. The G chord falling on the first beat has the best impact on accenting the beat (and you can hear him playing those accents) for those phrases. Enough time spent. I should be working on my new tune.
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  #29  
Old 11-15-2018, 02:16 PM
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Thanks guys, this has all been really helpful. JonPR, that's great. I need to find the strum notation in Guitar Pro. I spent a little time looking for it but couldn't find it. Part of Jim Steinke's style is to insert a lot of little strums here and there.

He was actually taught by, and remains friends with, Jorma Kaukonen, so there's a lot of overlap in their styles. He's a great guy and an inspiring player. If you guys would like me to mail you his CDs let me know. I keep a bunch on hand to help spread the Gospel of Steinke!
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  #30  
Old 11-17-2018, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justonwo View Post
Thanks guys, this has all been really helpful. JonPR, that's great. I need to find the strum notation in Guitar Pro. I spent a little time looking for it but couldn't find it.
Took me a while in Sibelius too! It comes under violin bowing techniques, meaning a downstroke.
Otherwise, I guess you could use a vertical arrow (if you can find one) - like an arpeggio symbol, but a straight line instead of a wiggly one. I used that on Sibelius before someone showed me the up/down bow stroke symbols. Obviously, given how tab goes, a downstroke would be shown with an upward arrow, which may be more confusing than it's worth!
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