ToneDexter - Verdict?

[Spook]

- For an oval hole hand carved archtop with a Sunrise pickup shimmed in, it does offer some improvement after fiddling with several training mic positions. Not really enough to run live but fun at home where you can better hear nuanced differences. Seems I saw somewhere that the Sunrise is one of the pickups that is not supposed to do well. Need to try it with an archtop with a K&K Definity though I'm not optimistic with that setup.

- You can run it on a 12V source as long as you have enough amperage. The TD will not work if underpowered. That allows an array of automotive and portable lithium solutions. My 4 pound lithium battery will power the TD and a Jam 150 ext speaker for about 12 hours.

- Many of us have several guitars and play more than one genre. May not work well on each one, but for the ones it does work well on, it's certainly worth the asking price.

[huck]

Originally Posted by shufflebeat

It works pretty well at doing what it claims to do. As a sound engineer I've used it with piezo equipped fiddles, mandolins, guitars and double bass. If it is trained appropriately then it can make a significant improvement to many systems but, to be honest, in a band setup most of the improvement would go unnoticed.

As a player I've used many gadgets in the search for a decent live sound. My eventual conclusion was that the best options were either the Fishman Aura (original blender) or the Yamaha AG Stomp. The TD pretty much supercedes the Fishman but not the Yamaha.

There are so many things the Yamaha does well that the TD doesn't that they make a great combination (Yamaha in the TD FX loop) but if I had to choose only one to take to a gig the Yamaha would win hands down.

I have a Yamaha AG Stomp I'll sell for $50 plus shipping. Used it at one time to help out the sound of a Chet Atkins nylon string.

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by huck

I have a Yamaha AG Stomp I'll sell for $50 plus shipping. Used it at one time to help out the sound of a Chet Atkins nylon string.

Worth it for the notch filters alone.

[dcopper]

Ok, I have made my first four wave maps using my K&K Taylor 914 and a simple SM57 mic. WOW - now I know what the TD talk is all about. As someone who has played for 5 decades but avoids any gear with menus - this is one very easy to use device. I think a better mic would give me far better results but I tried several different placements and the difference between pickup vs. TD tone is astonishing. Now it is just a matter of getting good mic placement.

What I found so far is the SM57 at about 6” away (pointing up, down or at the soundhole) gives it a bit of that “boomy” midrange bump. If I cut back on the mix between pickup and TD it takes some of that away. With the character full on it really does sound like a mic’d guitar.

So, I will keep working with it, but it is pretty amazing and easy to make wavemaps. If anyone uses an SM57 maybe you could recommend a different kind of placement?
Thanks to everyone who responded to this post. It has been extremely helpful.
Best regards,
Davidc

[HeyMikey]

Originally Posted by huck

I have a Yamaha AG Stomp I'll sell for $50 plus shipping. Used it at one time to help out the sound of a Chet Atkins nylon string.

I’ll take it. Pm sent

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by dcopper

What I found so far is the SM57 at about 6” away (pointing up, down or at the soundhole) gives it a bit of that “boomy” midrange bump. I
...

If anyone uses an SM57 maybe you could recommend a different kind of placement?

The soundhole is usually the one place you want to avoid when micing a guitar in any situation. I'd start with the mic aimed at the neck/body joint (12-14th fret area), and probably at least 12 inches away. But whatever works is fine, training tonedexter is a little different than recording, so if recording a sound that would be overly boomy when played back produces good results with tonedexter, that's ok!

[Gordon Currie]

Originally Posted by dcopper

What I found so far is the SM57 at about 6” away (pointing up, down or at the soundhole) gives it a bit of that “boomy” midrange bump. If I cut back on the mix between pickup and TD it takes some of that away. With the character full on it really does sound like a mic’d guitar.

What Doug said (point away from the soundhole and towards the neck/body join).

6 inches is pretty close, and the SM57 has proximity effect at that distance which increases bass (and woofy character). Also there is a pronounced high midrange bump on this mike (awesome for helping voices punch through a mix).

I've tried dynamic, ribbon, large and small diaphragm condensers. By FAR - not even close - the small diaphragm condensers have worked best for my guitars. The Shure SM81 (not quite a small, but not a large diaphragm either) is the 'largest' condenser I've used successfully.

[Stringmaster]

Does the Tone Dexter come with factory presets i.e. a dread w/small diaphragm condenser? Or is the only option to create your own tone maps? The former would be a handy feature for those who don't have access to a collection of mics.

[dcopper]

Thanks Doug, I will try what you suggest.
Appreciate all the help!
Davidc

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Stringmaster

Does the Tone Dexter come with factory presets i.e. a dread w/small diaphragm condenser? Or is the only option to create your own tone maps? The former would be a handy feature for those who don't have access to a collection of mics.

The entire point of ToneDexter is to be able to model *your* guitar, so there are no presets - tho maybe there will be someday since I think they now let you export wavemaps? (I haven't been following that). The Aura comes with presets, and it's weakness (IMHO) is that the models aren't your specific guitar. The people who sound best using an Aura are those who sent their guitars into Fishman to have models made of that exact instrument. ToneDexter lets everyone do that. You don't need a collection of mics, virtually any mic will do. I assume anyone who needs a tonedexter performs somewhere, and probably has some kind of mic, but maybe that's a wrong assumption?

[dcopper]

I am really amazed at the tone I am getting from the TD and my 914 with a K&K pickup. I recorded 6 different wavemaps with a simple SM57. My positioning may not have been the best but even my first attempt sounds better than the K&K alone and I actually like the K&K sound.
The guitar sounds so much more like its natural voice. The last two wavemaps I made were with SM57 placement at the 12th fret area. It really is amazing.
Thanks again everyone-
davidc

[buzzardwhiskey]

We played a fair amount of "big" outdoor stage concerts this year and I really gave my K&K equipped Martin CEO7 and Tonedexter combination a wringing.

There is an aspect of its use that I've never read and it may be worth noting...

If you play with a soundhole plug to fight feedback due to using a K&K, you might consider recording a wavemap with the plug inserted. You'll get a much truer sound.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by buzzardwhiskey

We played a fair amount of "big" outdoor stage concerts this year and I really gave my K&K equipped Martin CEO7 and Tonedexter combination a wringing.

There is an aspect of its use that I've never read and it may be worth noting...

If you play with a soundhole plug to fight feedback due to using a K&K, you might consider recording a wavemap with the plug inserted. You'll get a much truer sound.

Interesting advice. Certainly worth a try.

[AeroUSA]

Originally Posted by buzzardwhiskey

We played a fair amount of "big" outdoor stage concerts this year and I really gave my K&K equipped Martin CEO7 and Tonedexter combination a wringing.

There is an aspect of its use that I've never read and it may be worth noting...

If you play with a soundhole plug to fight feedback due to using a K&K, you might consider recording a wavemap with the plug inserted. You'll get a much truer sound.

I don’t think this will work. You could make a MAP without the plug and then use the plug live though (I never like those things).

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

I don’t think this will work. You could make a MAP without the plug and then use the plug live though (I never like those things).

I found when I plugged a K&K equipped dreadnought that the K&K sounded different and not as good. I imagine a Tonedexter wavemap for the unplugged sound might not sound great either. I ended up getting rid of our floor monitors which solved the feedback problem with that guitar. However playing festivals or large public venues with their own sound system, you're back to notch filters and good luck (or a plug).