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Old 02-15-2022, 10:45 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Default 87 mic blind shootout comparison

A friend sent me these clips of a blind shootout between five 87 type microphones. The Neumann 87 is iconic and revered. It may also be the most cloned mic out there (either the 87 or the 47, I suspect).

In the shootout, the performer sang into all five mics at the same time so the vocal performance is identical other than the microphone. They were tracked through an Antelope MP32 preamp with no equalization or compression added. Additionally, no pads or high passes were engaged on any of the mics. The only thing added was a small amount of reverb.

The five mics are...
1. vintage U87
2. U87ai
3. Serrano 87
4. BeesNeez BU87i C
5. Warm Audio WA-87

The mic identities were revealed to me today and I'll post them here once some responses pile up. I don't expect anyone to guess which mic is which but list your order of preference and some thoughts on what you heard, what you liked, and what you didn't like.





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along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos.

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Old 02-16-2022, 10:17 AM
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keith.rogers keith.rogers is offline
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First quick listen on cans, I would say B, then E, and after that, meh. I'll listen on speakers in my treated room when the robovac finishes running in an hour or so. Might change my mind then.

p.s. edit, I understand the motive, but I think the regimen, canard, even, that testing mics at the same position, even ones that are reputedly copying the same thing, is somewhat of a disservice because an inch either way might change what is being heard, like some proximity effect differences, room effect, etc. I mean, I don't put mic A that I have in exactly the same position as mic B because the latter sounds best there. (I know I'm in a minority here.)

p.p.s. I saw there was a link at the Soundcloud page for downloads, and possibly the results. I wish they'd just have uploaded HD to SC with the download option. I was probably listening to 128kbps stereo...
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Old 02-16-2022, 10:51 AM
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Have to check it out on my studio system and report back
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Old 02-16-2022, 11:05 AM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
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Well, listening through my new MassDrop Sennheiser 6XX headphones, they all sound pretty darn good. I'm not sure I'm in any position to tell the mics apart since I really don't know the "source material" -- the guy's voice -- at all.

I'm afraid I just can't help liking the sound of his voice with that (I presume) Telecaster through that chimey amp.

I'm sure there are differences between the mics that a person could find in a lab, but I'm not sure I could find them on an actual human voice.

It does show how closely these manufacturers are able to approach the classic sound of the U87. That in itself is pretty impressive and encouraging, I think.

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Last edited by Glennwillow; 02-16-2022 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 02-16-2022, 02:30 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Any guesses on which is the vintage 87?
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2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi
2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood
2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar
2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce
2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce
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along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos.

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Last edited by jim1960; 02-16-2022 at 02:52 PM. Reason: brain fart
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Old 02-16-2022, 02:44 PM
jklotz jklotz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
Any guesses on which is the vintage 67?
It'd be a vintage u87, not a 67, which is a tube mic.
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Old 02-16-2022, 02:52 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jklotz View Post
It'd be a vintage u87, not a 67, which is a tube mic.
Yep... brain fart.
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2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi
2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood
2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar
2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce
2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce
1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce

along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos.

YouTube
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Old 02-16-2022, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
Any guesses on which is the vintage 67?
I have never sung or heard someone sing through a Vintage 87 and my understanding is they can be different, maybe not as much as vintage tube, but different
A wild guess either B or E
I have sung through a 87Ai but years ago so again guessing it is A or D ?

I liked C the least it seemed to have just a bit less presence and dynamics

Great shootout BTW thanks for posting
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Old 02-16-2022, 03:03 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennwillow View Post
I'm not sure I'm in any position to tell the mics apart since I really don't know the "source material" -- the guy's voice -- at all.
To name the mics, one would have to be very familiar with all five and it's unlikely anyone is. We can offer our opinions on which mics we preferred though.

This is what I wrote to my buddy after I went back and forth between the clips for a while and before I knew which mic was which...

My order of preference…
E – big clear bottom end, desirable complexity in the top frequencies.
C – big clear bottom end, nice top end although not quite as nice as E.
D – not quite the bottom end of E & C but I like how it handled the highs.
A – a little thin overall compared to E and C, not a very complex sound.
B – had more bottom than A or D but the bottom was muddy.
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2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi
2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood
2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar
2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce
2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce
1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce

along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos.

YouTube
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Old 02-16-2022, 03:23 PM
FrankHudson FrankHudson is offline
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Nothing sounded bad here. I'll agree with the observation above that given that there are five LDC mics here some mic(s) might have gotten off-axis impacts. Was the singer far enough back to minimize that?

It was hard to hold in my memory which slight sonic detail was which while listening, and I don't have time to a maximum attention one on one test (AKA "do you like this one, or this one..." like at an optometrist's office for all the combinations.

B seemed darkest/warmest and had what almost sounded like slight compression to me. First thought? I like the resulting timbre the best on this audio particularly with the thin high guitar and this vocalist, but then slight compression or a small EQ tweak on others might had done the same for another, or even "more better."

E may have been my runner up. I'd really need more time to do all the possible A to B tests over and over.

A (possibly a bit brighter than any of the others?) may have been the last place. But then a darker vocalist or a different backing instrument, and who knows.

I have no appreciable experience with above $1000 mics. I have a Warm Audio WA87. I usually prefer my voice into a EV20 dynamic, and often prefer dynamics on my electric guitar so my tastes are not likely similar to others with more experience and taste.
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Old 02-16-2022, 03:24 PM
AcousticDreams AcousticDreams is offline
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Thank you so much for posting this....great fun and could be a valuable lesson learned as well!
O.K..I owned a mid 70's U87 for 30 years....Bought it brand new and rarely left my studio. I sold it in the Early 2000's.
However, I probably stopped using it somewhere in the early 90's or late 80's. So Have not sung in one since...nearly 30 years as well. So no vouching for my memory as to what it should have sounded like.
With that being said....I seemed to like B the most. It sounded the smoothest, creamiest to me. And seems to represent what I remember.
I need to spend some time and really listen to all of them. B....just stood out on my first couple of listens.
So I will be especially interested to learn which is which. And yes, as Jim1960 pointed out...I remember my u87 being a bit muddy.
Possibly the biggest mistake I have ever made was selling that mic. I did not think I would get back into recording. And I was constantly told that the new mics were equal at 1/10 the price...And that of course...was so not true.
But I also know..that finally, there have been some new developments. So if these less expensive clones do the trick? That would be nice.
Can't wait to find out the big reveal! What if the ones I like the best...are the less expensive ones? What if B, what I seem to remember as being the u87 sound...is actually the least expensive of them all? ha ha..
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Old 02-16-2022, 07:49 PM
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I’ve never owned or used any mics above the $350 price point but B and E sound best to my low budget ear ; )
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Old 02-16-2022, 11:39 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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I won't make you guys sweat for the reveal.

Mic A = Neumann U87ai ($3250)
Mic B = Warm WA-87 ($700)
Mic C = vintage Neumann U87 ($4k-8k)
Mic D = BeesNeez BU87i C ($675)
Mic E = Serrano 87 ($800)

The reveal was a pleasant surprise to me for two reasons:
1. I've been impressed by the Serrano 87 in all the clips I've heard of it and picked it as the best sounding mic in this blind shootout means I wasn't imagining it.
2. Based solely on what I heard from the Serrano 87, I jumped on the preorder for the not yet announced Serrano 84. This shootout makes me very excited because it gives me a lot of faith that Serrano will really nail the sound. The 84 pair is expected to arrive in April and we were just told it will now ship with three different capsules for each mic... a cardioid, an omni, and a darker cardioid.

The Serrano and the vintage 87 were the only two mics I really liked in this shootout. I thought the 87ai and the BeesNeez sounded a bit thin. I don't know about the BeesNeez but I do know the 87ai is a picky mic when it comes to preamps. Some preamps do a better job of coaxing a good sound out of that mic (a good friend owns one and I've had the chance to play around with it in his studio and he's used it in some mic past shootouts).

Some of you liked the Warm. It had the heft in the lower frequencies that came though on the vintage 87 and the Serrano but that muddy bottom was a deal breaker for me. If not for that, it could have landed into the three spot. My initial, less critical listen put it there but when I started doing one-to-one comparisons of the clips, it landed in the basement.

I'm pretty sure this shootout is going to cost me $800.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
I have sung through a 87Ai but years ago so again guessing it is A or D?
You missed on your vintage guess but you narrowed down the 87ai pretty well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars View Post
What if B, what I seem to remember as being the u87 sound...is actually the least expensive of them all? ha ha..
Would you settle for 2nd least expensive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowhand View Post
I’ve never owned or used any mics above the $350 price point but B and E sound best to my low budget ear ; )
The two you liked might be within reach.
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2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi
2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood
2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar
2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce
2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce
1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce

along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos.

YouTube
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Old 02-17-2022, 12:51 AM
AcousticDreams AcousticDreams is offline
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Great fun and good lesson learned.
Looks like a Serrano is on my list as well then.
When I owned my U87,I always thought It sounded rather blaw sounding....Flat...but blaw. Nothing that exciting. And also that muddiness I spoke of.
But I never had a great preamp. In my early days I knew not of such things and how they could make a difference. And that alone could possibly be where some of the Blaw, muddiness came from. I only had the cheapest mixing consoles. After now owning a good preamp and hearing the difference it can make...I understand. Looking back, with the poor chain before my U87, My Egg Cartoon treated walls in a square room, I doubt I ever got much of the high end out of the mic.
Yet, I also recognized that even with its blawness....the U87 always seemed to work in a mix. While I always dreamed of more openness, I realized the mic always captured my voice in a very reasonable matter. Flattering the lows and the mid range of my voice. This is one of the most important lessons I have continuously learned in life= What we think we want, and what we actually need may be two different entities. Often it is the Plain Jane that always gets the job done. That you can always count on.
At a NAMM show 3 years ago...I visited the Warm Audio Booth...I realized that what ever set up they were using was causing massive distortion. I guess the problems of trying to set up multiple mics in a small area. Since then, I have been pretty heavily biased against Warm Audio anything.
It was the same thing for the first year they introduced the reissue of the Neuman U67 at Namm. Something sounded terribly off. Again with horrible distortion.
Anyway....gave another quick listen and do see where the Serrano could be a very nice addition. Bringing back that old standard that always worked for me.

Last edited by Kerbie; 02-18-2022 at 11:40 AM.
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Old 02-17-2022, 02:36 AM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars View Post
Anyway....gave another quick listen and do see where the Serrano could be a very nice addition. Bringing back that old standard that always worked for me.
I've never been an 87 guy but all my hands-on 87 experience has been with my buddy's 87ai. The Serrano is a lot closer to what the vintage 87 in the shootout sounds like than it is to the 87ai which sounded thin to me (as it always has when I've used one). The Serrano just sounds too good to not grab it at $800. And I suspect that running that Serrano through my Demeter pre will give me the kind of magic I get when I run my Blue Kiwi through it. I'll be grabbing one at some point this year.
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2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi
2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood
2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar
2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce
2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce
1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce

along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos.

YouTube
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