Schatten Artist install brief review

[stevecuss]

Friends,

I picked up a Schatten with Artist preamp on eBay for a price to hard to refuse a few months ago but just today got to install it. As best as I can tell, this is the Artist 1 preamp. It is the 2 channel, phantom option preamp but with the volume wheel only, not volume and tone.

My friend has a lovely Bourgeois OMS-C 12 fret that had a Trance Amulet M inside. The Trance wasn't playing nice with the Bourgeois, so we switched it out for the Schatten.

Installation was a breeze. The toughest part was carefully gripping the very round preamp while tightening the outside nut.

We fashioned a simple cardboard template and basically just pushed the Schatten right up to the edge of the cardboard which lined up right underneath the saddle. Double checked the north/south balance between the string pegs sticking into the cardboard template, pressed down to seal the putty for a minute or so, and it was very firmly stuck in place. The putty install is very impressive. Also, I kept removing putty before installing. I took a tiny piece for each foot, but as I spread it, noticed it was too much. So basically, after taking the tiniest piece, ai still removed half before install. Les from Schatten sent me enough putty to last somewhere around 7000 years worth of installations....

Plugged in, the Schatten is several decibels softer than the Trance. It is also warmer, less treble, but very natural sounding. The Trance is brighter, louder, but has a subtle electric overtone. The Trance is also more sensitive to string noise and body movement .

I ran the Bourgeois through my Line 6 HX Effects for some EQ and brought up everything above 4k by about 2.5 db and that very much brought all the sparkle and highs you'd need. I didn't surgically eq at all, I just wanted to know that we could get natural sounding highs and brightness if need be. Yep, no problem there.

Oh, and my amp had a notch filter at 100hz. With that off, the Schatten was too boomy for taste.

I'm sure we could loosen strings and bump the pickup down toward the treble side more, and possibly a couple of mm toward the sound hole, but it is good enough for now.

Next step is to test it at stage volume, and in a band setting.

So far, very very impressive. I switched to Trance pickups a few years ago and am very happy with my Trance, but so far the Schatten is a great option, especially the way you can add a second pickup, manage gain stages from the preamp and run fully phantom powered. I love how natural it sounds and I love the putty.

Lots to love about this pickup.

And in closing, my disclaimer about sound board transducer pickups: I have come to believe that SBT style pickups react to: tone woods, bridge plate material, bridge plate density, location of pickup, pressure and mode of mechanical connection to bridge plate. This means a massive YMMV for all of all. Each person's experience truly is unique to their situation when it comes to SBTs. I've gotten great sound out of Trance, Schatten and K&K in various guitars.

[Petty1818]

Nice report, thanks! I too switched from the Amulet to the HFN. The Amulet definitely has a bit of an electric quality to it. I have been saying that for a while but I felt as though I was the only one who noticed it. The biggest difference for me is that the HFN feels like it's a part of my guitar and not a pickup. It just seems to have a woodier tone and the installation methods are so dead simple that you can experiment for days with little modifications or effort.

I am still debating about adding a second source and going to the HFN Artist 2 route where the two pickups can be blended but the signal comes out mono. The HFN is great on its own but there are times where I want just a bit more string balance as well as the option to go to another source if feedback becomes an issue.

[stevecuss]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Nice report, thanks! I too switched from the Amulet to the HFN. The Amulet definitely has a bit of an electric quality to it. I have been saying that for a while but I felt as though I was the only one who noticed it. The biggest difference for me is that the HFN feels like it's a part of my guitar and not a pickup. It just seems to have a woodier tone and the installation methods are so dead simple that you can experiment for days with little modifications or effort.

I am still debating about adding a second source and going to the HFN Artist 2 route where the two pickups can be blended but the signal comes out mono. The HFN is great on its own but there are times where I want just a bit more string balance as well as the option to go to another source if feedback becomes an issue.

I hear you on the second source. I don’t trust a second source without some way to separately we and maybe even crossover frequencies, so for me a second source would require an external two channel blending preamp. I suppose a UST would probably be fine, but I’m happy to be done with them.

[GuitarLuva]

I too am happy with the Schatten Artist preamp. Using phantom power is awesome. I just received the Schatten UST to use as a backup for high volume situations. It actually sounds pretty good for a UST but I'm currently plagued with string balancing issues that I need to work out on my next days off.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

I too am happy with the Schatten Artist preamp. Using phantom power is awesome. I just received the Schatten UST to use as a backup for high volume situations. It actually sounds pretty good for a UST but I'm currently plagued with string balancing issues that I need to work out on my next days off.

The Schatten UST looks a lot like the Lr Baggs Element. That's the only reason why I haven't tried the Schatten as I found the Baggs UST dampened my tone a bit.

[stevecuss]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

The Schatten UST looks a lot like the Lr Baggs Element. That's the only reason why I haven't tried the Schatten as I found the Baggs UST dampened my tone a bit.

I’ve had the same experience with the Element. I think it is the soft braided material that dampens the tone. I don’t think the Fishman and B Band has the same problem.

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

The Schatten UST looks a lot like the Lr Baggs Element. That's the only reason why I haven't tried the Schatten as I found the Baggs UST dampened my tone a bit.

Yes I concur it does look similar to the Baggs element. However, one difference is there's some sort of coating on Schatten's UST compared to the element and it's a little slimmer which makes it more difficult to seat properly. I never noticed a difference in unplugged tone though, but I'm sure like all UST's there will be some difference.

When I first installed it, my 2 e strings were hotter than the others. I figured I should just wait and let the UST squish a bit. I tested it again last night and I think it is completely settled now (it should be) and my low e string is hot compared to the others. My saddle is completely flat. I'm thinking that maybe my saddle slot is not completely flat in this guitar. That might help explain why the Anthem SL didn't sound quite right in this guitar. I'll be looking into this further on my next days off.

[Petty1818]

I took out my HFN equipped Taylor to a brewery grand opening show that we did yesterday. This is the second time I have used the HFN live. This venue was quite difficult to mix as the sound was bouncing around the large/open building but we ended up getting some great acoustic tones. I did not use a monitor for this show since the mains were close enough that we were able to easily hear everything.

With that said, the HFN at first sound absolutely terrible. I had my buddy strum my guitar while I mixed and with everything flat, my Taylor sounded very thin and ear piercing. It was as if someone had cranked the treble and cut all other frequencies. Just like my previous show with the HFN, the pickup needed considerable eq to make it sound good. I didn't spend a long time tweaking but I had to drastically cut the treble and boost the low end. However, once I did that, the pickup sounded fantastic. Mind you I did not have a monitor so maybe my opinion would be different but I did listen to some videos and my guitar sounded great out front. What I am finding is that when I play the HFN, I play the same as I would acoustically. With other pickups I tend to modify my attack.

Now I still kind of want a second source since the HFN is proving to not be as easy to dial in as I had hoped. I was going to get a passive UST and then the Schatten Artist 2. However, I realized that the Artist 2 does not allow for eq'ing each pickup and since the HFN needs a massive treble cut, it just wouldn't work. I am afraid I might have to do a stereo out which is not really what I wanted.

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I took out my HFN equipped Taylor to a brewery grand opening show that we did yesterday. This is the second time I have used the HFN live. This venue was quite difficult to mix as the sound was bouncing around the large/open building but we ended up getting some great acoustic tones. I did not use a monitor for this show since the mains were close enough that we were able to easily hear everything.

With that said, the HFN at first sound absolutely terrible. I had my buddy strum my guitar while I mixed and with everything flat, my Taylor sounded very thin and ear piercing. It was as if someone had cranked the treble and cut all other frequencies. Just like my previous show with the HFN, the pickup needed considerable eq to make it sound good. I didn't spend a long time tweaking but I had to drastically cut the treble and boost the low end. However, once I did that, the pickup sounded fantastic. Mind you I did not have a monitor so maybe my opinion would be different but I did listen to some videos and my guitar sounded great out front. What I am finding is that when I play the HFN, I play the same as I would acoustically. With other pickups I tend to modify my attack.

Now I still kind of want a second source since the HFN is proving to not be as easy to dial in as I had hoped. I was going to get a passive UST and then the Schatten Artist 2. However, I realized that the Artist 2 does not allow for eq'ing each pickup and since the HFN needs a massive treble cut, it just wouldn't work. I am afraid I might have to do a stereo out which is not really what I wanted.

I'm surprised that you have to EQ so much, especially that way. My 2 previous HFN installs sounded perfect without EQ but most recent HFN install requires at least at 6dB cut around 160Hz. In other words way too much bass. I also really wanted this particular guitar to be dual source but I'm struggling with the UST. I just gave up on the Schatten UST. Just my luck it was one of the better sounding UST's that I've tried but I just can't get the string balancing issues worked out. The UST doesn't seem to compress over time like the Baggs Element. I may end up taking Gary's advice and give one of David Enke's OTTS UST's a try. I sent him an email 3 days ago with a few questions and he hasn't got back to me yet. If he doesn't reply I might just stay single source after all.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

I'm surprised that you have to EQ so much, especially that way. My 2 previous HFN installs sounded perfect without EQ but most recent HFN install requires at least at 6dB cut around 160Hz. In other words way too much bass. I also really wanted this particular guitar to be dual source but I'm struggling with the UST. I just gave up on the Schatten UST. Just my luck it was one of the better sounding UST's that I've tried but I just can't get the string balancing issues worked out. The UST doesn't seem to compress over time like the Baggs Element. I may end up taking Gary's advice and give one of David Enke's OTTS UST's a try. I sent him an email 3 days ago with a few questions and he hasn't got back to me yet. If he doesn't reply I might just stay single source after all.

You definitely seem to be the exception when it comes to finding the HFN to be heavy on the bass. Consider yourself lucky! But yeah, all my band mates were wondering what happened to my guitar when I first plugged it in. Mind you, I was using my Radial PZ Deluxe that I haven't used in a year or two. I will have to check to see if possibly the impedance control on the side was set incorrectly. I used to use this DI/preamp with my active bouzouki so that's a possibility.

Regardless, my next move is to take out the HFN and install it with tape. I still feel the one tape install I did provided the most balanced tone.

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

You definitely seem to be the exception when it comes to finding the HFN to be heavy on the bass. Consider yourself lucky! But yeah, all my band mates were wondering what happened to my guitar when I first plugged it in. Mind you, I was using my Radial PZ Deluxe that I haven't used in a year or two. I will have to check to see if possibly the impedance control on the side was set incorrectly. I used to use this DI/preamp with my active bouzouki so that's a possibility.

Regardless, my next move is to take out the HFN and install it with tape. I still feel the one tape install I did provided the most balanced tone.

Yes I totally agree! I wish I had the answer to why my installs have plenty of bass or too much in one case and most others report having to add in bass and decrease trebles.

What you described is certainly an indication of an impedance mismatch, sounds like you know what to check and hopefully you can get it worked out.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

You definitely seem to be the exception when it comes to finding the HFN to be heavy on the bass. Consider yourself lucky! But yeah, all my band mates were wondering what happened to my guitar when I first plugged it in. Mind you, I was using my Radial PZ Deluxe that I haven't used in a year or two. I will have to check to see if possibly the impedance control on the side was set incorrectly. I used to use this DI/preamp with my active bouzouki so that's a possibility.

Regardless, my next move is to take out the HFN and install it with tape. I still feel the one tape install I did provided the most balanced tone.

Scott,

Bite the bullet and get a Larrivee D-40 Legacy and install the pickup of your choice in it. Read my review of my new Larrivee D-40 Legacy in the Main AGF section.

Ken

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

Yes I totally agree! I wish I had the answer to why my installs have plenty of bass or too much in one case and most others report having to add in bass and decrease trebles.

What you described is certainly an indication of an impedance mismatch, sounds like you know what to check and hopefully you can get it worked out.

I will report back once I have experimented more. All I can say is, the HFN is the first pickup that has made me happy when playing plugged in. It's also super feedback resistant. It's worth the experimentation to make it sound best.

One thing I want to try is installing the HFN with the wire facing towards the low/bass E string. I always install it with the wire facing down towards the high E. I know this seems like a change that won't matter. However, I have now had three HFN pickups in my possession (one was faulty and had to be sent back) and on each one, the actual transducer is slightly shifted towards the side where the wire comes out to the output jack. As a result, the transducer slightly hangs over one side (wire side) and is a little short on the abs base on the side opposite of the wire. I am wondering if maybe my low E is a bit weak because the transducer is shifted more towards the higher strings? I hope this makes sense, it's very difficult to explain haha.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Scott,

Bite the bullet and get a Larrivee D-40 Legacy and install the pickup of your choice in it. Read my review of my new Larrivee D-40 Legacy in the Main AGF section.

Ken

If it came with a 1-3/4" nut width, I would be all over it! It's crazy though, Larrivee is a Canadian brand, even though they are now made in California. It's crazy how difficult it is to actually find them here though. Long & Mcquade carries Larrivee but I can wait months to see a 40 Legacy model. I have been waiting forever for the L-40 but it's not even listed on Canadian dealer websites. My buddy's dad has the D-40 with Mahogany back and sides. It's from about ten years ago when Larrivee released the 40 models as a short run. It sounds awesome.

By the way, did you hear that you can now get the 40 models with gloss finishes? I think that would be just about the best deal out there. I don't mind the satin at all but even a gloss top would be nice. Larrivee guitars are so balanced that on paper, they seem like the best guitars to amplify.

[The Kid!]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

I'm surprised that you have to EQ so much, especially that way. My 2 previous HFN installs sounded perfect without EQ but most recent HFN install requires at least at 6dB cut around 160Hz. In other words way too much bass. I also really wanted this particular guitar to be dual source but I'm struggling with the UST. I just gave up on the Schatten UST. Just my luck it was one of the better sounding UST's that I've tried but I just can't get the string balancing issues worked out. The UST doesn't seem to compress over time like the Baggs Element. I may end up taking Gary's advice and give one of David Enke's OTTS UST's a try. I sent him an email 3 days ago with a few questions and he hasn't got back to me yet. If he doesn't reply I might just stay single source after all.

It all depends on the room. I've had situations where it's sounded phenomenal one night, and the next night in a different room needed some pretty drastic EQ. It's the nature of a soundboard transducer. Even with a good pre and a sound hole cover, you can still have issues.

FWIW, I run sound in addition to playing, so I know how to gain stage and EQ. Some rooms wreak havoc with an SBT at certain volumes. I play in the corner one room that is a bass trap and surrounded by huge glass windows. It needs a lot of tweaking, so I opt for my UST pickup there.

Another room is mostly wood and the HFN sounds amazing set flat even without the Tonedexter. I used the HFN through a Red Eye at my buddy's open mic and he said it was the best live acoustic tone he's ever heard there. (Two QSC K12's and two QSC K181's for FOH.)

The HFN also has a softer attack than a UST. You can feel it when you dig in on lead lines especially. It's still one of my favorite pickups, but it definitely has some limitations depending on the room.

There's no perfect pickup. I'm loving the Tonedexter but I'm missing the body sounds when I use the UST.