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  #1  
Old 06-10-2018, 11:07 AM
Monsum Monsum is offline
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Default 70s piezo pickup

I came across this live performance from 1977 and was stunned by the quality of this piezo pickup equipped guitar. It seems like most piezo designs today are not any better than those pioneering systems.
Even my Martin with Fishman Sonitone didn't sound as good as her amplified Ovation guitar. Are we really making any progress in getting a more natural sound in a live setting?
High expectations are put now on processors like Tonedexter (and Fishman Aura) but it's taken decades to improve electro-acoustics.

Another thought after watching this - a skilful player with a good song doesn't need the best system to impress listeners.

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Old 06-11-2018, 02:25 AM
shufflebeat shufflebeat is offline
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Fishman Aura Blender would have improved that no end.

I'm in the process of evaluating the Tonedexter and that piezo signal sounds like the ideal 'before" setup to trigger the TD's processing.
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Old 06-11-2018, 06:08 AM
leew3 leew3 is offline
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and let's be careful when comparing our tone with the recorded tone of professionals who have the benefit of massive amounts of sound reinforcement equipment and highly trained technicians to make them sound 'that good'.

My Alvarez with Barcus Barry hot dots and their proprietary preamp sounded pretty good back in the day if I say so myself!
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Old 06-11-2018, 06:20 AM
Tone Gopher Tone Gopher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsum View Post
I came across this live performance from 1977 and was stunned by the quality of this piezo pickup equipped guitar.
Speaking to the quality of pickups of the ‘70s: The F.R.A.P. GP-100 of the day, with on-board preamp, was pretty amazing. I have one in my Gurian that is still great.
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Old 06-11-2018, 06:44 AM
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Chriscom Chriscom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsum View Post
I came across this live performance from 1977 and was stunned by the quality of this piezo pickup equipped guitar. It seems like most piezo designs today are not any better than those pioneering systems.
Even my Martin with Fishman Sonitone didn't sound as good as her amplified Ovation guitar. Are we really making any progress in getting a more natural sound in a live setting?
High expectations are put now on processors like Tonedexter (and Fishman Aura) but it's taken decades to improve electro-acoustics.
That it has. But, sincerely, though good for its time that's quacking like a duck to me, though I've certainly heard worse. And--I'm really not trying to be negative for its own sake lol--the Fishman Sonitone, though a low bar (I usually call it the dreaded Sonitone), is no worse than that Ovation and probably a bit better to my ear. I was happy to discover with some tweaking via the Bose Tonematch T1 that it can sound much better, and when not using that the Boss AD-2 helps significantly. I'm fortunate enough to have a guitar with the Fishman Aura VT Enhance and that, to me is remarkable even without any extra outboard help.

Another thought after watching this - a skilful player with a good song doesn't need the best system to impress listeners.

Without a doubt, and that was some great playing.
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Old 06-11-2018, 10:11 AM
BBWW BBWW is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leew3 View Post
and let's be careful when comparing our tone with the recorded tone of professionals who have the benefit of massive amounts of sound reinforcement equipment and highly trained technicians to make them sound 'that good'.

My Alvarez with Barcus Barry hot dots and their proprietary preamp sounded pretty good back in the day if I say so myself!
Yup, had twin Hot Dots in the bridge on my 1969 D-18. That was my "Bar Playing" guitar for the entire 70's.
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Old 06-11-2018, 02:28 PM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsum View Post
I came across this live performance from 1977 and was stunned by the quality of this piezo pickup equipped guitar. It seems like most piezo designs today are not any better than those pioneering systems.
Even my Martin with Fishman Sonitone didn't sound as good as her amplified Ovation guitar. Are we really making any progress in getting a more natural sound in a live setting?
High expectations are put now on processors like Tonedexter (and Fishman Aura) but it's taken decades to improve electro-acoustics.

Another thought after watching this - a skilful player with a good song doesn't need the best system to impress listeners.

As others have said when you've got a bunch of professional sound reinforcement behind you it's going to help with the overall tone, and the Ovations excelled at live electric/acoustic tones (although they suffered in the pure acoustic tone), I think I think the stiffness of the bodies helped the pickup do it's job. I still have a 2001 Ovation Legend 12 that I use for live stuff once in awhile and the pickup sounds surprisingly good. BTW I saw that version of Heart tour and the band sounded that good live!
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Old 06-12-2018, 04:48 AM
Vancebo Vancebo is offline
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The skillful playing helped me overlook an otherwise very marginal guitar tone. Good playing tends to do that.
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  #9  
Old 06-12-2018, 05:13 AM
Julian Mount Julian Mount is offline
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I used Barcus Berry pickups in the 1970s. They were great. Still got one on my 12 string. With decent equalisation they're still good. But modern pickups are better (and higher output). Ovation pick ups always sounded a bit "buzzy" to me...but back then this was new tech and sooooo different from electromagnetic soundhole pick ups.
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Old 06-12-2018, 06:06 AM
GHS GHS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leew3 View Post
and let's be careful when comparing our tone with the recorded tone of professionals who have the benefit of massive amounts of sound reinforcement equipment and highly trained technicians to make them sound 'that good'.

My Alvarez with Barcus Barry hot dots and their proprietary preamp sounded pretty good back in the day if I say so myself!
I agree with this. Good sound men with excellent equipment tweaking the tone is not a fair comparison to guys like us doing the best we can with our equipment at hand.
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Old 06-12-2018, 01:50 PM
MrErikJ MrErikJ is offline
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I find it intriguing that the Adamas sounded better strummed than fingerpicked. That's counter-intuitive to most of us who would say a UST sounds ok picked but can go to heck when strummed with force. Of course, the Ovation pickup isn't a true UST, but still, I think it's interesting that it sounded clearer when strummed. Curious if that was the nature of the FET preamp from the era.
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Old 06-12-2018, 02:04 PM
terrapin terrapin is offline
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Ughhh! The same old “quack”! SO many live recordings from that era ruined by primitive piezo quack!
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Old 06-12-2018, 02:50 PM
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Where's the guy who always says, "They should have used a K&K?

(sorry - couldn't resist)
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  #14  
Old 06-12-2018, 03:24 PM
MrErikJ MrErikJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Side Man View Post
Where's the guy who always says, "They should have used a K&K?

(sorry - couldn't resist)
OMG, UST SOUND BAD. USE K&K. ONLY GOOD PICKUP.
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  #15  
Old 06-13-2018, 10:42 AM
Side Man Side Man is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrErikJ View Post
OMG, UST SOUND BAD. USE K&K. ONLY GOOD PICKUP.
Thanks for that! I can sleep well tonight...
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