Baggs Lyric

[JLS]

? Less natural than all the other quacksticks out there?


Maybe it's because they build to a price point, rather than trying to produce the very best, unaffordable-to-all-but-corksniffers, transducer systems possible?

[Ivan Lee]

Another big thanks to Doug for getting the samples and his reactions up here!!

Count me in the camp that not only do I like the Lyric sound for amplified acoustic but I think it will work far better at the gig than the DPA. And I especially liked the sound with the presence all the way down.

[Doug Young]

Still playing around this afternoon. Here's a Sunrise/Lyric combo in the Taylor. Certainly could do a lot more with EQ, but this is a first stab:

Lyric + Magnetic (Sunrise)


On to other experiments...

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Ivan Lee

Another big thanks to Doug for getting the samples and his reactions up here!!

Count me in the camp that not only do I like the Lyric sound for amplified acoustic but I think it will work far better at the gig than the DPA. And I especially liked the sound with the presence all the way down.

Just to be clear, (I've said this several times, but I think it gets lost), I never use the DPA alone - this was just a test of the "boxyness" elimination of the Lyric compared to a "regular" internal mic, which seems to be quite impressive. I only use the DPA as a bit of air added to another pickup, and it works great for that. Perhaps the Lyric will work even better? Possible.

[Ivan Lee]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Just to be clear, (I've said this several times, but I think it gets lost), I never use the DPA alone - this was just a test of the "boxyness" elimination of the Lyric compared to a "regular" internal mic, which seems to be quite impressive. I only use the DPA as a bit of air added to another pickup, and it works great for that. Perhaps the Lyric will work even better? Possible.

Sorry for lack of clarity on my part !!

I too only use the internal mics in a dual source system. That said the internal mic sound for me always suffers from exactly what I heard (and what you were talking about) in your DPA example. It takes some serious EQ to blend it in and I keep the mix mostly to the other source side. The lyric on the other hand sounded pretty darned good alone and as you are so aptly showing would also make an awesome dual source element. Now they only need to solve the two places at once problem and give us a SBT/Lyric combo :-)

Thanks again!

[alohachris]

Aloha JLS,

"Maybe it's because they build to a price point, rather than trying to produce the very best, unaffordable-to-all-but-corksniffers, transducer systems possible?"

You're right about that, JLS. Baggs DOES consistently build to a price point - THE ENTRY-LEVEL PRICE POINT - the same one that all their products to date have been built to.

The question is, when will Baggs build a product for pro giggers? Could the Lyric be the one? Maybe.

I've been waiting & trying out all there stuff for over 30 years now, ever since the LB-6 first came out. But they haven't moved off the entry-level pricepoint yet, IMO. And that's why I use & encourage others to investigate more useable, (yes, more natural sounding) & flexible products, ones that are not entry-level & whose propriatary-ness is a bit more concealed. Something that can work well with other products from other companies in a live signal chain of my choice - not theirs.

I mean, how you gonna combine the Lyric with an SBT when they both are required to be placed along the same saddle-line on a bridge-plate?

RE: Differences between the 4061 & the Lyric samples & sound quality.
Doug doesn't like to provide EQ to his samples (outside his comparison site) - HE JUST DID ABOVE - GREAT DOUG! . So I took the samples & put 'em into Logic & played with the EQ there on both samples. I could get much more open-sounding results with the 4061 sample. It responded & behaved like the good mic it is - taking EQ easily, as expected.

However, I've had trouble playing around with EQ'ing the Lyric sample, because it is so doggone compressed sounding (especially on the B string ) in the first place. The Lyric doesn't behave like a regular mic when applying EQ, because Lloyd has already done lots of EQ'ing in advance, hyping the mid's.

So when you compare those samples, take it into the real world of EQ'ing the source to fit the room. The 4061 works easily, the Lyric not as well, IME. Try it.

I am NOT saying the Lyric is bad at all. I think it sounds pretty good & could be the answer for those non-"corkscrew-sniffing?", one-pickup-using players out there, JLS. In fairness, we'll all just have to wait to hear the Lyric with our own ears live, right?

alohachris

[arashaw]

Call me crazy but I thought in the first test with the Lyric against the Schoeps, the Lyric sounded good, like a mic, even if it is "in the cave." Yes it isn't as "clear" or "bright" as the Schoeps but it performs with mic characteristics. Throw some eq or a different guitar in there, and you have the "mic' sound.

[alohachris]

Aloha Doug,

Thank you for all the time you've put into producing & sharing these samples. Yes! It's Great to hear the Lyric combined with the Sunrise in a dual-source system WITH EQ & verb on the sample. Sounds very, very promising.

It's too bad that we couldn't compare that Lyric-Sunrise pairing to a Lyric-K&K mini pairing due to the placement constraints, huh?

The dual-source sample sounds real fine. Thanks again, Doug for the time you've provided in introducing us to the sound of this new product.

Mahalo a nui,

alohachris

[lschwart]

Big thanks to Doug for the recordings and comments! Very useful, as usual!

The big question for me right now, as I consider whether the Lyric might give me some mic sound in a band context, is how it would actually work with a mag like a passive Baggs M1 in terms of installation and signal chain. According to what I read, the endpin jack that comes with the M1 is stereo and it's possible to wire another pickup into it. I assume that means if I wired a second source into the endpin, I could use a stereo TRS cord to go into a blender that takes one (or use a split cord to go into separate channels).

Can the Lyric go through the M1's endpin jack, or does it need to go through its own? And if it does need to go through its own endpin jack, can the M1 be sent through that? Or would using the two in tandem mean drilling another hole or draping the M1 cord out the soundhole (neither option is attractive to me).

I like the sound of the M1 for the context in which I'm using it, but it's got weaknesses, especially in terms of a nice acoustic strumming sound, and it looks like the Lyric might address these in combination--if it's indeed feedback resistant enough in a bassy dread on a medium-loud stage.

So how does the wiring work?

EDIT: I just noticed that Doug mentions some of these issues in the Sunrise/Lyric recording (I guess there's a second channel available for wiring on the Lyric). I'll check that out now!

Louis

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by arashaw

Call me crazy but I thought in the first test with the Lyric against the Schoeps, the Lyric sounded good, like a mic, even if it is "in the cave." Yes it isn't as "clear" or "bright" as the Schoeps but it performs with mic characteristics. Throw some eq or a different guitar in there, and you have the "mic' sound.

Yeah, lots of people seem to be complaining that the Taylor/Lyric sounds too bright, but what I hear comparing the Schoeps vs Lyric - which is the real test - how much like the guitar does the pickup sound? -is that the Schoeps is brighter and has more "air", so if anything I'd add some presence to the Lyric to accurately convey the sound of the guitar. I really didn't think trying the pickup in a Taylor was radical - they do sell a few every year :-) But I will get around to trying it in a different guitar.

The mic characteristics is really key. Tone is very subjective, and our ears adapt quickly. If you hear someone live, you don't get to A/B their plugged in sound to a studio mic. But the envelope of the sound, the attack, the decay, that I think we recognize, and many pickups are very unnatural there.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by alohachris

To bad we couldn't compare that Lyric-Sunrise pairing to a Lyric-K&K mini pairing due to the placement constraints, huh?

The constraints may be less strict that you think. I just moved the Lyric to the back of the bridge, and it sounds pretty much the same. I'll be trying the K&K+Lyric combo shortly.

[leeasam]

with the magnetic added in does sound pretty good. I do like listening to different systems etc. especially no undersaddle piezo sytems. Hell will freeze over before I ever use a rubber band sounding tone robbing piece under the saddle again.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by lschwart

The big question for me right now, as I consider whether the Lyric might give me some mic sound in a band context, is how it would actually work with a mag like a passive Baggs M1 in terms of installation and signal chain. According to what I read, the endpin jack that comes with the M1 is stereo and it's possible to wire another pickup into it. I assume that means if I wired a second source into the endpin, I could use a stereo TRS cord to go into a blender that takes one (or use a split cord to go into separate channels).

The Lyric has an endpin preamp that appears to support a 2nd channel. You'd want to run your second source into that. You can't separate the the Lyric preamp from it's end-pin jack, it's all one piece, so there's no way to add the Lyric to another system, you'd have to do it the other way around. I think that means the 2nd source would have to be passive.

I have yet to try this type of setup, on my todo list.

[lschwart]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

The Lyric has an endpin preamp that appears to support a 2nd channel. You'd want to run your second source into that. You can't separate the the Lyric preamp from it's end-pin jack, it's all one piece, so there's no way to add the Lyric to another system, you'd have to do it the other way around. I think that means the 2nd source would have to be passive.

I have yet to try this type of setup, on my todo list.

Thanks, Doug! That's what I just gathered from your Sunrise/Lyric recording--which sounded very encouraging in terms of what I'd be looking to do with the M1.

Looking forward to hearing what you discover when you get to the wiring--and to what the K&K/Lyric combo sounds like!

Louis

[Repair Dude]

Have to agree , that last sample of the Sunrise/Lyric with the Bass and Treble adjustments , sounded pretty nice . a touch of verb on that is a good live sound

Thank for posting those Doug