'60s Gibson LG-2 ADJ - Nailing down a date

LookerBob · #1 12-30-2019, 02:15 PM

This past weekend, my grandfather's early 60's LG-2 was passed down to me after my dad and brothers decided I was the one who should have it (which was humbling in and of itself). It's a wonderful guitar that sounds great, plays great, and is in pretty decent shape (vid link at the end to hear it).

The story:
My dad remembers going to the music store with his dad when he was around 12 years old to pick out a guitar (he had been playing some sort of arch top, I guess), and this was the one he bought (new). It came in a crocodile hide design gray chipboard case (we still have the case, but some guitars got switched to the wrong cases, so waiting to reunite the guitar with the case - we have a replacement modern case that it will live in anyway.)

He played it next 30+ years, and apparently with some gusto since he was trying to dig a hole in the bottom edge of the sound hole. I remember being around the guitar growing up, as well as a similar 12 string Gibson that is going to another branch of the family.

He developed cancer in the 90s (don't smoke cigars, kids) and died in '97 at age 72. The guitar then sat in my grandparents house for the next 22 years until Grandma moved into a nursing home last winter at age 94 and my dad and his siblings started cleaning stuff out of the place, at which point my dad laid claim to the guitar since the musicians in the family are all pretty much clustered with my dad, my brothers and I. Other than my dad getting it out while at that house once in a while, I don't think it has been played hardly at all since '97.

Condition:
It's really in pretty good shape - it has a repaired crack (I'm sure repaired by my grandfather himself, who built violins in his retirement) on the lower bout of the treble side - looking inside I can see where he glued a couple thin pieces of wood across the crack, and you can see two small holes he drilled in the top to hold things in place while drying, I guess.

I don't see any loose braces when I peer around in there with a mirror.

The bridge is lifting slightly on the back and needs to be reset.

There is a TON of height left on the bridge, so a neck reset is way in the future still, which is great.

I can remember watching my Grandpa play it and the weird way he'd angle his fingers that resulted in some interesting divots being gouged into the fretboard on the 1st and 2nd frets by the G-B-E strings, but the frets aren't buzzing at all and while they have some wear are probably fine for a while, or maybe replace the first four or so - hasn't been played much outside of the root cowboy chord position.

So... dating it...

My dad remembers going with his dad to buy the guitar in Casper, WY, and thought he was about 12, which would've been '59, and from what I understand the ADJ was only '61/'62 before they stopped making the LG-2, and the cherry sunburst was also just in those years (or maybe '60 as well?), so he's probably mis-remembering his age.

The SN, 49049 would make it a '62 from what I can tell, but I have a bit of a question about that since the SN is not stamped into the headstock, but rather printed (actually feels raised), like you would see on 50s Les Pauls. I'm not finding anything online that matches this at all - it looks like the 50s ones don't have anything on the headstock, and all the 60s ones have the number stamped. My assumption is still that it is a '62, but I'm curious about why it would have an inked number and not a stamped number. I'm sure it's never been refinished.

Anyway, anyone with deeper knowledge that might have any insight into this guitar, I would love to hear what you know.

Here are some pictures...

First, my Grandpa playing it in 1982, joining my dad in accompanying my OTHER grandpa, who also built fiddles (and mandolins) in his retirement. For such a stern looking guy, I always remember him being super quick to laugh with big, face busting grins, and was always a sweetheart to all his grandkids.

Here's a little vid (just shot w/ my phone) if you care to hear it...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/BGJYGMj3i9kxyaRb8

And here are some pics of the guitar now with some details on the SN.

Larry Mal · #2 12-30-2019, 06:31 PM

Great guitar- great story. Thanks for sharing.

beatcomber · #3 12-30-2019, 08:20 PM

This is just wonderful!

Deliberate1 · #4 12-30-2019, 08:43 PM

What is the best guitar is a question often posed. Clearly, it is the one loved by your granddad.
I hope you can pass it on, just as he did. There is a whole life carved in that top.
David

Mkel12 · #5 12-30-2019, 08:52 PM

Such a sweet little guitar with a great backstory. The tone in your video clip is gorgeous, and you clearly were the right heir, given your chops. Thanks for a truly uplifting post!

bluemoon · #6 12-30-2019, 08:54 PM

Congrats on inheriting those memories and a cool guitar. I also inherited my granddads Gibson, but in my case it was a 1961-1963 Gibson J-50 based on what Gibson could tell me a while back. It still has the thinner pick guard and wider (for Gibson neck) which also helped dating them, alongside the number of rings in the soundhole rosette. Mine had the plastic bridge with ebony saddle which narrowed mine down a bit but currently, my thinking is it’s a late 62’ early 63. Changing out the adjustable saddle and having a new bridge installed made a huge difference on mine and addressed some bellying of the top just FYI.

Play it and enjoy the memories.

LookerBob · #7 12-31-2019, 11:28 AM

Glad people dig the story... I think it's pretty neat as well - had me reconnecting with some of those memories of my grandfather that had been fading a bit in the years since his death. I realize that I've now lived more of my life with him gone than I did with him alive, which is sad - not quite 21 then, and 43 now. Some replies made me think about a few things that hadn't occurred to me yet, or changed the light a bit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluemoon

Changing out the adjustable saddle and having a new bridge installed made a huge difference on mine and addressed some bellying of the top just FYI.

I've wondered about swapping the saddle for a non adjustable version as well, but I guess doing that I would have to replace original bridge? How did that work out on yours? Or are they able to use the existing bridge and just cut a custom saddle that fills the wider slot? I've heard some say the ADJ setup is a tone suck, but this thing sure sounds nice as-is.

drive-south · #8 12-31-2019, 04:37 PM

Thats a great guitar and the story is priceless.

There should be a FON (factory order number) stamped inside near the bridge plate. That will help date it to the exact date it was completed. Use a small mirror to find the FON.

zombywoof · #9 12-31-2019, 05:03 PM

Cannot help you with how the serial number was stamped other than 1961 was the first year Gibson went with the serial number on the back of the headstock. But anything is possible with Gibson. My wfe owns a 1960 J20 which has both an FON on the neck block and label with a serial number which is different. Confusing the matter firther is the guitar apparently went back to Gibson for some work at which time they stamped the FON on the back of the headstock but got the last two numbers switched around.

zombywoof · #10 12-31-2019, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drive-south

Thats a great guitar and the story is priceless.

There should be a FON (factory order number) stamped inside near the bridge plate. That will help date it to the exact date it was completed. Use a small mirror to find the FON.

I have ever even heard of Gibson stamping an FON any place other than the neck block. In fact, FONs were not used after 1960 with Gibson going to a new numbering system the next year. I do own a '61 B45-12 and did not see anything stamped in there when I went in once to check the bridge plate. Now you have me curious, so next time I change strings I will take a peak inside as I was not looking for anything stamped in there at the time.

LookerBob · #11 12-31-2019, 06:02 PM

Double checked the interior of the guitar, definitely no FON anywhere, which I think jives with it being a '61 or '62.

It is almost certainly a '62, but the printed vs. stamped serial number is intriguing, if nothing else.

zombywoof · #12 01-01-2020, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LookerBob

Double checked the interior of the guitar, definitely no FON anywhere, which I think jives with it being a '61 or '62.

It is almost certainly a '62, but the printed vs. stamped serial number is intriguing, if nothing else.

I am not surprised you did not find any kind of a number stamped underneath the top.

I would say just love the guitar for its history. I am guessing the only reason you would question the build date because the serial number is stamped is because you are a Gibson newbie. Once you have been around these guitars for decades you quickly figure out something like this bit of strangeness is not all that unusual. I once owned an early-1963 B45-12. Some very weird things about it. Instead of the standard 3 ply top binding this one had 7 ply. And inside there was a square white label which Gibson only used on classical guitars. Mystery was solved when it turned out the label was covering a stamp which read "Hummingbird.". So apparently when Gibson was making the shift from slope to square shoulder 12 strings they were not above occasionally using a re-purposed Hummingbird body.

bluemoon · #13 01-01-2020, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LookerBob

Glad people dig the story... I think it's pretty neat as well - had me reconnecting with some of those memories of my grandfather that had been fading a bit in the years since his death. I realize that I've now lived more of my life with him gone than I did with him alive, which is sad - not quite 21 then, and 43 now. Some replies made me think about a few things that hadn't occurred to me yet, or changed the light a bit.

I've wondered about swapping the saddle for a non adjustable version as well, but I guess doing that I would have to replace original bridge? How did that work out on yours? Or are they able to use the existing bridge and just cut a custom saddle that fills the wider slot? I've heard some say the ADJ setup is a tone suck, but this thing sure sounds nice as-is.

My bridge was plastic and lifting pretty bad so we had to replace the bridge and the saddle. Also ended up replacing the bridge plate just as a preference. A good tech should be able to just make a custom wide saddle out of bone for it you’d just have to remove the screws for the current adjustable one but should be able to swap back and forth. At least this was an option offered early on for me and then we ended up replacing the whole deal.

Happy picking.

BRVC · #14 01-01-2020, 06:39 PM

That guitar looks a lot like my old 60’s era Gibson B 25, though I assume yours is a better guitar. I enjoyed the story.

zombywoof · #15 01-01-2020, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluemoon

My bridge was plastic and lifting pretty bad so we had to replace the bridge and the saddle. Also ended up replacing the bridge plate just as a preference. A good tech should be able to just make a custom wide saddle out of bone for it you’d just have to remove the screws for the current adjustable one but should be able to swap back and forth. At least this was an option offered early on for me and then we ended up replacing the whole deal.

Happy picking.

Gibson went to the hollow plastic bridge in late-1962 so you will find both that and the wood ADJ saddle bridge that year. Replacing the stiff laminate plate needed to support the heavier ADJ saddle bridge was the way to go. It is amazing how many will either alter the bridge with a fixed saddle insert or replace it without gving any thought to swapping out the laminate plate for a traditional solid maple one..