Palm muting

[Minotaur]

After taking up guitar a little over 2 years ago, I'm saddened and ashamed to say that I still can't palm mute consistently. Please tell me I just haven't been practicing it (I know that's probably the answer). In reality my total practice has been suffering, and I'm not where I should be, or so I think. But that's another story and thread.

The palm muting...

The sheet for You Don't Mess Around with Jim says slight p.m. for all the verses, which happen to be E and A shuffles. I copied this from the sheet, which has tab and standard notation:

E shuffle (this is 2 measures)
A |--2---2--X--4---4--X--|--5--5--X--4-X-4-X--|
E |--0---0--X--0---0--X--|--0--0--X--0-X-0-X--|

A shuffle (this is 2 measures)
A |--2---2--X--4---4--X--|--5--5--X--4-X-4-X--|
E |--0---0--X--0---0--X--|--0--0--X--0-X-0-X--|

On the standard notation staff they are written as 1/4 or 1/8 notes, but with the X. So if the shuffle is slightly muted, what are the Xs? I've seen them for full muted strokes, but not with an instruction for a slight mute too.

[walternewton]

I'm guessing they intend fully muted, but I wouldn't worry too much about trying to distinguish every individual beat as strictly "unmuted" or "partially muted" or "fully muted" - it's more that there's a continuum of tones you can play with. I'd suggest listening to the song (and to other blues shuffles) and trying to copy the sound and feel since these sorts of things can be difficult to get across in tab/notation.

[Minotaur]

That's kind of what I thought; I thought it was overkill. I guess even published sheetmusic can be whacked out. I've seen several good YT covers I'm studying. Thanks.

[ljguitar]

Hi mino…

Here is a great example of it...our anonymous friend Fretkiller. Great angle to watch him mute...

You Don't Mess Around with Jim - click

[Minotaur]

I know that video well... it makes me want to cry.



That was one of the first ones I saw. Fantastic.

I do notice that my hand is a lot more tensed than his and the others I've seen.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Minotaur

...I do notice that my hand is a lot more tensed than his and the others I've seen.

Hi Mino…
Great technique on his part.

Yes, relaxed is always preferable to tensed or changing direction from your strum motion to accomplish it. It is a pretty natural 'flowing' motion. And what he's doing might be referred to as a drop mute as much as a palm mute.

He is lifting and dropping - kind of half palm mute (because he does use a palm mute at times) and half drop mute...because he's dropping the palm onto the bottom strings particularly.

[daza152]

Palm Muting? well I guess I can do it, there is one song off you tube that taught me, it start on open position G chord with a down up mute then moves to open position C chord with a down up mute, this is all strumming sounds cool too I like it. The song is Bubble Toes I think by Jack Johnson check out that one, pretty easy stuff I hope that was what your talking about.

Daza.

[Minotaur]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Mino…
Great technique on his part.

Yes, relaxed is always preferable to tensed or changing direction from your strum motion to accomplish it. It is a pretty natural 'flowing' motion. And what he's doing might be referred to as a drop mute as much as a palm mute.

He is lifting and dropping - kind of half palm mute (because he does use a palm mute at times) and half drop mute...because he's dropping the palm onto the bottom strings particularly.

I heard it once referred to as a "karate chop" motion, considering a quick movement then stop. I guess "practice" is the word of the day. Thanks, I'm encouraged.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Minotaur

I heard it once referred to as a "karate chop" motion, considering a quick movement then stop. I guess "practice" is the word of the day. Thanks, I'm encouraged.

Hi m-taur…
Just try getting a bit 'lazy' with the strum and let the fat part of the underside of the thumb start brushing the bottom 3-4 strings.

Once you are there, then get a bit lazier and drop it a bit further till it mutes them fully. If you drive it further, it will mute all 6, but not at once....just on the way by. What we call a palm mute really doesn't involve the palm. It involves the ham of the thumb adjacent to the palm.

The thing many students seem to have most problem with is not stopping when the mute hits. The rhythm doesn't change, so there is not need to hold the mute in place. Just keep strumming up to tempo in a relaxed fashion (lazy enough for that underside of the ham-o-the-thumb to stop at least the bottom 3-4 strings from ringing). It is the effect you are going for...not the technique.

I know that Travis depends on partially muting the bass strings, but on my 000-12 the bridge is so tiny, I can't get my hand in-there to do it, so I just play it without bothering to mute and nobody notices. Occasionally I drag-n-mute the bottom string to keep it from ringing on, but it certainly isn't normal Travis Style. It still works...and that is what I meant by it's the effect over the technique.

[Minotaur]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi m-taur…
Just try getting a bit 'lazy' with the strum and let the fat part of the underside of the thumb start brushing the bottom 3-4 strings.

Ah ha! That is where I go wrong. I am trying to mute the E & A strings for the E shuffle and the A & D strings for the A shuffle, but trying to anchor the heel of my hand down by the bridge; not really anchor, but float it with a light touch. So I either wind up with a full mute or a really inconsistent one with some strokes ringing and some muted full or partial.

Once you are there, then get a bit lazier and drop it a bit further till it mutes them fully. If you drive it further, it will mute all 6, but not at once....just on the way by. What we call a palm mute really doesn't involve the palm. It involves the ham of the thumb adjacent to the palm.

That's good, because there are a few songs I have in my arsenal that call for muting. I cheat by lifting my fretting hand ever so slightly, but there's a problem with open strings with that method, so I don't mute them yet.

Thanks again.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Minotaur

...I cheat by lifting my fretting hand ever so slightly, but there's a problem with open strings with that method, so I don't mute them yet.

Hi m-taur…
Why is that cheating? It's just a different style of muting.

I use fretting finger mutes, palm mutes, partial mutes, side of the strumming hand mutes, rock the picking hand mutes, picking thumb mutes (I don't wear picks), drop mutes - both side of the hand and plucking hand fingertip mutes...

Lots-o-ways to skin this cat!!

[Minotaur]

Nah, I don't really mean cheating. It's actually the only way (as far as I know) that you do reggae and ska.

Btw, I've been working on your suggestions and it's getting better. It's definitely a matter of practice. I can tell the difference between a slightly muted sound and a full ringing sound.

I had to call it quits for tonight and switch to other practice since I'm sick of E and A shuffle!

[Minotaur]

I wanted to give an update, especially to Larry because of his gracious amount of time and tips.

I think I finally nailed the technique. Oh sure it needs practice and I cannot do it at "gig speed", but I think I got there. It finally dawned on me, after what Larry was telling me and watching these two vids, look where their hands are, and look where they are striking the strings... their hands are virtually on the bridge pins, and they are striking the strings at the bottom of the sound hole. Notice also how relaxed their hands are, even though the shuffle strikes 2 strings at a time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYb6HMjJhCw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGW_19CsV4s

It's a little harder to see in Fretkiller's vid because of the angle, but seeing as he's striking the strings at the bottom of the soundhole, that tells me he's got to have his hand virtually on the bridge pins.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvbBaj4hb8w

I positioned my hand that way, and "got lazy" and loosened up my strokes. That's when it came together. I got a nice slightly muted sound that was very much contrasted to a full ringing of the strings. I even tried the full chords this way and saw hope.

So the take home lesson is a big thanks to Larry, and the realization that with practice and studying something, I mean really studying it (almost obsessively ) you can learn just about anything you thought you couldn't.