New Taylor 717 Day....Part Two

[BluesKing777]

Originally Posted by noledog

* +1 ...Shades your tonal perception is spot on as I find it be similar to my experience regarding the D-28 vs HD28 and straight vs forward shifted for that matter overall. I prefer the D28 over the HD28, I don't care for the scooped mids in a rosewood dread, whereas it's less pronounced in the mahogany dreads due to mahogany's flatter EQ curve... may I digress and add I find sapaele even more to my liking then mahogany, as it has a nicer low end presence/definition with a punch in the mids and phat trebles. Thus, "thickness", my Signature and Pro Tak's have that and so that's why my interest in the 717 you describe so far.
...BTW I rather have a guitar with a phat, full, thick and round character balanced from E to E versus an overpowering bass, scooped mids and thinner, brighter highs or sparkle a la a forward shifted, scalloped rosewood dread. An added note is that the former translates better for me amplified as well for my style and solo performances.

** You and Gary have both owned a buffet of nice guitars hence my video request, but hey bud no worries if it ain't yer thang. I have live performance vids, NGD vids, originals etc... and I still never get a great recording, but all I use is an ol' Canon camera or even worse my laptop webcam LOL! People at my shows record me, post the vids on Facebook mistakes and all, and I don't even know it sometimes till I see it as I'm scrolling!! Gary tho does a jam up job and he could give ya tips if ya ever get the desire to make some.

Cheers and can't wait to demo a 717!

eric

What do you think, Shades?

Does Eric have GAS or what?

Time to look up the closest shop with some GPs and get over there and try them, Eric, preferably not a big famous shop with unloved....


BluesKing777.

[Groberts]

Originally Posted by noledog

* +1 ...Shades your tonal perception is spot on as I find it be similar to my experience regarding the D-28 vs HD28 and straight vs forward shifted for that matter overall. I prefer the D28 over the HD28, I don't care for the scooped mids in a rosewood dread, whereas it's less pronounced in the mahogany dreads due to mahogany's flatter EQ curve... may I digress and add I find sapaele even more to my liking then mahogany, as it has a nicer low end presence/definition with a punch in the mids and phat trebles. Thus, "thickness", my Signature and Pro Tak's have that and so that's why my interest in the 717 you describe so far.
...BTW I rather have a guitar with a phat, full, thick and round character balanced from E to E versus an overpowering bass, scooped mids and thinner, brighter highs or sparkle a la a forward shifted, scalloped rosewood dread. An added note is that the former translates better for me amplified as well for my style and solo performances.

** You and Gary have both owned a buffet of nice guitars hence my video request, but hey bud no worries if it ain't yer thang. I have live performance vids, NGD vids, originals etc... and I still never get a great recording, but all I use is an ol' Canon camera or even worse my laptop webcam LOL! People at my shows record me, post the vids on Facebook mistakes and all, and I don't even know it sometimes till I see it as I'm scrolling!! Gary tho does a jam up job and he could give ya tips if ya ever get the desire to make some.

Cheers and can't wait to demo a 717!

eric

My local shop has a couple Taylor 717 Builder edition’s. If I can make some some free time in the near future, I’ll take one home for a test spin and record some A-B demo comparisons to my venerable D-18's.

I played both 717 Builder Edition guitars and they were very nice. Definitely nice guitars. Neither blew me away personally, but that's not meant to say they weren't both 'very' nice. They definitely are compelling. The fact that I didn't get too excited probably speaks to the fact they are so balanced. I will add they are very musical. I demand a 'cutaway' because I use the upper register real estate, so my enthusiasm is always tempered by that personal constraint. It eliminates a lot of guitars my 'personal short list.

I also tried a Taylor 317 last week and it was super cool too. But I felt the 717's were on another level.

(Side bar) I may have also come to the realization that a straight braced D-28 might work better for my rosewood dread needs than the HD-28. The HD is might “jangly”. But I know how to finesse my HDC-28 (Cutaway) and it deserves its place in my gigging arsenal.

[chistrummer]

Originally Posted by Groberts

My local shop has a couple Taylor 717 Builder edition’s. If I can make some some free time in the near future, I’ll take one home for a test spin and record some A-B demo comparisons to my venerable D-18's.

I played both 717 Builder Edition guitars and they were very nice. Definitely nice guitars. Neither blew me away personally, but that's not meant to say they weren't both 'very' nice. They definitely are compelling. The fact that I didn't get too excited probably speaks to the fact they are so balanced. I will add they are very musical. I demand a 'cutaway' because I use the upper register real estate, so my enthusiasm is always tempered by that personal constraint. It eliminates a lot of guitars my 'personal short list.

I also tried a Taylor 317 last week and it was super cool too. But I felt the 717's were on another level.

(Side bar) I may have also come to the realization that a straight braced D-28 might work better for my rosewood dread needs than the HD-28. The HD is might “jangly”. But I know how to finesse my HDC-28 (Cutaway) and it deserves its place in my gigging arsenal.

You local shop loans you guitars for test drives. Do they charge a fee?

Lots of great reviews out there about the grand pacific models. Getting closer to adding one to the stable.

[Groberts]

Originally Posted by chistrummer

You local shop loans you guitars for test drives. Do they charge a fee?

Lots of great reviews out there about the grand pacific models. Getting closer to adding one to the stable.

I have a unique relationship with them over 30 years and I ma friends with the owner. hThe videos post often helps them make a sale. It is not a standard Policy available to anyone. I do not abuse it and often wind up buying what I deem so ''special' I take it for an in-home demo to compare with my other instruments to get a benchmark reference.

[BluesKing777]

Originally Posted by Groberts

I have a unique relationship with them over 30 years and I ma friends with the owner. hThe videos post often helps them make a sale. It is not a standard Policy available to anyone. I do not abuse it and often wind up buying what I deem so ''special' I take it for an in-home demo to compare with my other instruments to get a benchmark reference.

That is a nice relationship you have, Gary!

I have a special relationship with a couple of music shops too - they sell guitars and I buy them!

But....quite a few years back, I was trying out my usual 00/000/OM - the shop owner lines a few up on stands and I play them, he sometimes goes "Aha" and comes back with something he thinks I may like. This particular day, he gave me something I don't want...in theory! A 2006 Martin HD28V - with buckle rash all over the back and pick scratches all over the front, the dreaded V neck with 1 11/16" nut. Not the usual fingerpickinger I would play. Oh why did I play it? Sounded beautiful, played horrid - somebody had played nothing but cowboy C since buying it and the first 4 frets were down to the wood. I don't know what they were doing but the back of the neck looked like new. No capo mark. Weird. But the sounds! Take it, thanks.

So I didn't play it much and had it on the 'Out' list. Except I couldn't sell it like that, not those frets, so I asked my luthier to fix just the first 3 or 4 frets so I can sell it. No...need to do 8 at least, maybe all.

I picked it up yesterday with all frets replaced, a setup, new strings. Wow! Beautiful!

And I have started to compare it with the 717e...not really one thing the same! Except the strings. And the HD28V is also staying!



BluesKing777.

[Shades of Blue]

I continue to fall even more deeply in love with my 717. It’s just perfect for me in every way. Every time I fend off 517 gas, it comes right back when I play my D-18. All I want to play is the 717. Honeymoon? Sure...I’ll chalk it up to that for now!

My daughter put it best last night when we were playing together...I’ll let her elaborate in her own 7 year old words....

“Dad, I think you should only play the Taylor. It’s just got more sound coming from the hole, and it sounds like the whole room is playing guitar. That Martin sounds good, but all I hear is deepness...”

There you have it, from the mind of a 7 year old.

[BluesKing777]

From the mouth of a 7 year old to the words of a rather old 7 year old...Me! It has taken me a lot longer to work all that out!

Anyway, I have been comparing my 2006 HD28V and my 717e, going back and forth a little. The Martin has a lovely tone, played in for 13 years and now has all new frets. It is a great guitar, not a boomy guitar like a lot of these dreads. The biggest drawback for me personally is the Mod V neck (like a lot) with the 1 11/16" nut. (cramped for fingerpicking, do-able though...just.) It has an undersaddle passive Fishman pickup which is truly awful on its own but nice through Tonedexter.

It is staying for the time being then...

The Taylor 717e wins by a large margin because of the chunky neck, 1 3/4" nut, the V Bracing intonation benefits, and the torrefied top is well on the way to sounding 'vintage' - plus for me the ES2 pickup system is nice on its own but wonderful through my Tonedexter. Acoustically, the 717e now seems to have more bass, but balanced, than (my) HD28V. It could carry the load of a number of guitars I have getting dusty - easy!

I will have to sell something else before the floor collapses!




BluesKing777.

[Groberts]

Shades, LOVE the candid objective commentary by your 7 year old. Dang. Your enthusiasm for the 717E is infectious. If I get a chance to demo one, I'll have to restring it and see how different it sounds versus Elixirs.

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by Groberts

Shades, LOVE the candid objective commentary by your 7 year old. Dang. Your enthusiasm for the 717E is infectious. If I get a chance to demo one, I'll have to restring it and see how different it sounds versus Elixirs.

Gary, I can’t really explain it. I just love the thing. It’s all I want to play. I have never felt this way about an acoustic. Not the D-18, not the J-45, or anything else. When I go back to the Martin after the 717, all I hear is thinness. The girth around the high notes on the 717 is haunting. Maybe I just have a great one.

I remember my time with the four 717s I played before ordering mine from Ted. The first 3 were at a Sam Ash. Lovely enough to get my attention, but the lack of low end bothered me and the Elixirs just sounded clangy as always. Even the 717 I ordered and shipped back to Sweetwater sounded close to the ones I’d played...fairly consistent I’d say.

I took a huge gamble in selling my J-45 to pay for another 717. Something about the bear claw top on the one Ted had in stock said “I’ll be worth it.” Almost darn near shed a tear driving off after trading the J-45 for green. I knew I’d made a mistake. But I called Ted on the way home and ordered it.

My first few hours with the new 717 I have now weren’t unlike the others I’d played. This one seemed to have more volume, but no more bass than any of the others. See the pattern? Always judging guitars by bass.

After I finally removed the Elixirs and put on Santa Cruz strings, the 717 started coming alive. It sounded more natural and woody. It was just more of what I wanted to hear. Then I put on a bone saddle and the sound suddenly got more full. I swear that bluesking777 is right. These get more bass every day. I think that it could have just as much bass as the Martin, but it also just has a single note girth I love.

My daughter and I were playing along to a Sean and and Sarah Watkins song last night. She figured out some of the violin part and we had a blast. I was using a capo up on the 5th fret and it sounded extremely vintage and Gibson like, but with strength and volume. Very woody. I soloed over the song a bit up past the 12th fret. Magical. We were playing along with a Bose and YouTube so it was rather loud. I switched to the Martin and I felt like it sounded good too, but all of my volume and thickness was gone.

I then realized what I don’t like about acoustic guitars. I don’t like the thinness and loss of volume on the high E and B strings. It’s why I gigged with an electric for years with my Father in law in a gospel group. When I’d solo, I would lose the volume and girth in the higher registers and I just always seemed to struggle with it. With electric I could adjust things to fatten the highs without getting shrill.

I know I’ve been emphatic about the 717, and yes I even realize that in two months I may end up getting tired of this sound, but it’s the first guitar that makes me 100% happy and not nit picky. I don’t need to put it against the D-18 because it already wins hands down. It’s all I can do not to order a 517 to pair with the 717. The neck is fat, the thing is comfortable, and it is all I want to play.

[Groberts]

I was able to spend some time today with a couple Taylor Grand Pacific 717e Builders edition models and a Taylor GP 517e at my local shop.

I really felt the 517e is so close to the 717e that Shades would pit them against one another and the winner would be played most, if not all the time while the other would seem redundant and quickly become expendable.

I was more relaxed today with nowhere I had to run off to. I had the acoustic room at the local guitar shop to myself for an hour. That gave me time to get acquainted with the Taylor Grand Pacific 717e and 517e without being rushed. I really liked the 717e and I preferred it over the 517E! Shades, I understand why you love your Taylor GP 717E and why you were considering the 517e. But I really did feel the 717e was more impressive and inspirational to play.

My shop had (2) Taylor GP717E's. One was natural finish with a little bear claw and the other one was the understated satin finish tobacco burst. The natural one sounded better, but not because of the natural finish. It was just a bit fuller and richer. The family voice was clearly there in both guitars. But specimen-to-specimen in the same model, there are always differences.

I was quite impressed with the Taylor 717E. I let go of any preconceived notions that it should sound like a slope shoulder dread from Gibson or other builders. I simply judged it on its own merit.

It has great sustain and I think the V Class bracing with this particular body size and shape is the best choice. The sustain and note-to-note clarity is exceptional and the low end is rich without being overly deep or boomy.

To try and encapsulate the sound, it has a Dread-like low-end married with the midrange detail and complexity of an OM.

I loved the satin finish. It feels 'elegant' and the neck profile has a nice size and shape.

[Jaden]

I remember (on a much reduced scale) when I fell in love with a Yamaha LL16, I added yet another as well as a LL16M. I didn’t pit one against the other but rather each brought something a little different to the table (of tone and response). It was an enriching experience and I’m sure glad I went ahead with it.

If it’s not a matter of causing financial hardship I think it’s well worth to explore a guitar model you have a strong pull to.

[bquindawl]

Originally Posted by Shades of Blue

Gary, I can’t really explain it. I just love the thing. It’s all I want to play. I have never felt this way about an acoustic. Not the D-18, not the J-45, or anything else. When I go back to the Martin after the 717, all I hear is thinness. The girth around the high notes on the 717 is haunting. Maybe I just have a great one.

I remember my time with the four 717s I played before ordering mine from Ted. The first 3 were at a Sam Ash. Lovely enough to get my attention, but the lack of low end bothered me and the Elixirs just sounded clangy as always. Even the 717 I ordered and shipped back to Sweetwater sounded close to the ones I’d played...fairly consistent I’d say.

I took a huge gamble in selling my J-45 to pay for another 717. Something about the bear claw top on the one Ted had in stock said “I’ll be worth it.” Almost darn near shed a tear driving off after trading the J-45 for green. I knew I’d made a mistake. But I called Ted on the way home and ordered it.

My first few hours with the new 717 I have now weren’t unlike the others I’d played. This one seemed to have more volume, but no more bass than any of the others. See the pattern? Always judging guitars by bass.

After I finally removed the Elixirs and put on Santa Cruz strings, the 717 started coming alive. It sounded more natural and woody. It was just more of what I wanted to hear. Then I put on a bone saddle and the sound suddenly got more full. I swear that bluesking777 is right. These get more bass every day. I think that it could have just as much bass as the Martin, but it also just has a single note girth I love.

My daughter and I were playing along to a Sean and and Sarah Watkins song last night. She figured out some of the violin part and we had a blast. I was using a capo up on the 5th fret and it sounded extremely vintage and Gibson like, but with strength and volume. Very woody. I soloed over the song a bit up past the 12th fret. Magical. We were playing along with a Bose and YouTube so it was rather loud. I switched to the Martin and I felt like it sounded good too, but all of my volume and thickness was gone.

I then realized what I don’t like about acoustic guitars. I don’t like the thinness and loss of volume on the high E and B strings. It’s why I gigged with an electric for years with my Father in law in a gospel group. When I’d solo, I would lose the volume and girth in the higher registers and I just always seemed to struggle with it. With electric I could adjust things to fatten the highs without getting shrill.

I know I’ve been emphatic about the 717, and yes I even realize that in two months I may end up getting tired of this sound, but it’s the first guitar that makes me 100% happy and not nit picky. I don’t need to put it against the D-18 because it already wins hands down. It’s all I can do not to order a 517 to pair with the 717. The neck is fat, the thing is comfortable, and it is all I want to play.

I have recently purchased a 717E as well. And I share the same reactions as you do. Am constantly blown away at the tone, volume, and CONSISTENCY of both. It’s just always there. Mine as well has seemed to pretty drastically improve in the 3 weeks I’ve been playing it. Noticeably.

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by bquindawl

I have recently purchased a 717E as well. And I share the same reactions as you do. Am constantly blown away at the tone, volume, and CONSISTENCY of both. It’s just always there. Mine as well has seemed to pretty drastically improve in the 3 weeks I’ve been playing it. Noticeably.

I think the change in sound I’ve noticed is remarkable. I’ve never heard this much change in a guitar. I wonder if it has something to do with the Bracing vibrating the top more violently since it is more stiffly braces through the center of the top.

[lodi_55]

Originally Posted by noledog

* +1 ...Shades your tonal perception is spot on as I find it be similar to my experience regarding the D-28 vs HD28 and straight vs forward shifted for that matter overall. I prefer the D28 over the HD28, I don't care for the scooped mids in a rosewood dread, whereas it's less pronounced in the mahogany dreads due to mahogany's flatter EQ curve... may I digress and add I find sapaele even more to my liking then mahogany, as it has a nicer low end presence/definition with a punch in the mids and phat trebles. Thus, "thickness", my Signature and Pro Tak's have that and so that's why my interest in the 717 you describe so far.
...BTW I rather have a guitar with a phat, full, thick and round character balanced from E to E versus an overpowering bass, scooped mids and thinner, brighter highs or sparkle a la a forward shifted, scalloped rosewood dread. An added note is that the former translates better for me amplified as well for my style and solo performances.

** You and Gary have both owned a buffet of nice guitars hence my video request, but hey bud no worries if it ain't yer thang. I have live performance vids, NGD vids, originals etc... and I still never get a great recording, but all I use is an ol' Canon camera or even worse my laptop webcam LOL! People at my shows record me, post the vids on Facebook mistakes and all, and I don't even know it sometimes till I see it as I'm scrolling!! Gary tho does a jam up job and he could give ya tips if ya ever get the desire to make some.

Cheers and can't wait to demo a 717!

eric

I for one, don't want Eric to play a 717. He'll fall in love, improve his already fantastic stable and with his renewed confidence, he'll start coming after my west coast beach gigs!

Eric, stick with your Martins and Taks!!

[John K]

Shades of Blue: I really can't afford to read any more of your posts...