New Taylor 717 Day....Part Two

[Groberts]

Originally Posted by Rev Roy

Yep...your Outlaw is a beast. So where does your D-41 stand vs. a 717? I know so far mine slays any guitar unfortunate enough to get in its path...

The D-41 is in a different class than the 717 IMO. You probably knew that already. The 717 is a unique instrument all of its own. All dreads going to be different than the 717.

FWIW (IMO), the 717 compared to the 317 is not going to be like the difference you hear from your 317 to D-41. The 717 sounds more evolutionary with more refinement than the 317. But they are more similar than different.

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by Ozarkpicker

Shades, see...here's what confuses me. The day I went to look at the Taylor GP's, the store had a brand new D-18 on the wall. Yay! I'd never played a new one, and had wanted to try one, hoping it would have the mystical yummy Martin sound I had read so much about here and had floating around my head. To my sincere disappointment...the sound was "thin" and much, much brighter than I had imagined. I have heard and read others say the new D-18's are amazing...and I was sad that, at least on this one...that was far from the truth.

I thought, in fact...both the 517e & 717e blew it out of the water.

Did I just grab a "dud" of a Martin, or were my expectations off kilter for what a new Reimagined D-18 should sound like?

I definitely hear thinness in the new HD-28s, which is what led me to choose the D-18. I wouldn’t have called the D-18 thin until I played the 717, but now I do think it is thin. What’s odd is that I’m learning that bass doesn’t equal power and thickness.

I’m looking forward to comparing the 517 to the D-18.

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by Groberts

I've played several current/new D-18's in a room at the same time. They all had the Martin D-18 family 'voice', but each one had its own variation. I played and compared 4 of them in one sitting. One was trebly, thinner and bright, another was warmer. I forget what the others sounded like, but they were all slightly unique. One of them I dismissed. I went back to the same shop over a year later. It was still there, had a new set of strings on it. I wondered how I ever dismissed it before?!? It blew me away and I bought it. I still own and LOVE it. Go figure.



I will bring home a Taylor GP 717e on Friday this week if I can. I want to make a comparison video to contrast with my D-18's. If I had to guess, I'd say my D-18's are going to sound richer and have deeper bass. I also think I will prefer them. For some, richer deeper low end seals the deal. I get seduced by that but in the long run, a guitar has to sound balanced and I think that is where the Grand Pacific shines. Richer deeper bass is not the last word in musicality but for me, I always prefer a certain amount of low end or the guitar will leave me wanting. I am afraid the GP717 might leave me wanting more bass. But not sure.



Also not sure I will get the same performance that Shades is achieving because he changed to a Bone Saddle and different strings. (Santa Cruz strings?) If I am so inclined I will go the extra mile and put on a set of Phosphor Bronze strings (Not Elixirs) when I get to demo it?



I am a firm believer that when an instrument inspires you to be creative and forget about the instrument and get lost in the music, ....that is a great instrument. Clearly the 717 is doing that for Shades. That's all that matters at the end of the day.



Waxing poetic aside; I came home after playing a 717 at my local shop and picked up my D-18 and still prefer it. I LOVE my D-18's (Cutaway and non-cutaway)



I was never really considering a GP but rather more curious, especially after Jonathan's (Shades of Blue) glowing report. So I am sort of 'along for the ride' and enjoying contributing to his elation and to AGF.

I can tell you one thing for sure, and that is that after 3 weeks with it, I think my 717 has gotten a lot better in the bass department. I think that it’s honestly pretty close to the D-18 in the bass department now, and definitely on par with a D-28 Id say.

I think the 717 really fits more into the D-28 camp than anything. I haven’t played a D-28 yet that I’d say had overwhelming low end, but I think I prefer the thickness and sustain that straight Bracing offers. If you go into it with the mindset that it is probably more stiffly braced like a D-28, that could explain some of the lesser low end.

When a D-28 doesn’t have great low end, it gets a pass because it’s straight braced and it’s more balanced. When a Grand Pacific has less low end, it’s because it isn’t a Martin lol.

[noledog]

Originally Posted by Shades of Blue

I didn’t realize how much I was going to enjoy the GP neck until I used it for a couple weeks. It’s really difficult going back to the D-18 now and it is t terrible but I want all my necks chunky now lol.

I can appreciate your thought bro... I love my D18 too and get along fine with MLO/PA, however, the MIJ Tak asymmetrical design is beefier and more ergonomic which translates to less fatigue when doing 4 hour shows. It is by far my fav neck profile with Avalon a close second. I also think these beefier necks contribute to the tone, jmo... another reason to get my hands on a GP. I checked around today in my local store and none yet.

[BluesKing777]

Originally Posted by noledog

I can appreciate your thought bro... I love my D18 too and get along fine with MLO/PA, however, the MIJ Tak asymmetrical design is beefier and more ergonomic which translates to less fatigue when doing 4 hour shows. It is by far my fav neck profile with Avalon a close second. I also think these beefier necks contribute to the tone, jmo... another reason to get my hands on a GP. I checked around today in my local store and none yet.

It's a little conspiracy, Eric. They are hiding those GPs from you because they know how good you will sound....show them all up!

Err, I haven't heard much mention of the V bracing uses on the GPs - don't forget you can do all kinds of new things you couldn't on the X. Lots of stuff to experimentswith. Like play all over the neck in tune. etc. Scott Nygaard has a few nice clues for you:

https://pegheadnation.com/instrument...s-edition-717/

BluesKing777.

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by BluesKing777

It's a little conspiracy, Eric. They are hiding those GPs from you because they know how good you will sound....show them all up!





BluesKing777.

Well, I’ve heard that they are still building them in small quantities. I’m sure Taylor has a ramp up plan, but right now (according to a Taylor employee) they aren’t 100% sure how they are going to move forward yet.

[drplayer]

Well, I received a Grand Pacific Builder's Edition 717 earlier today and just spent a couple hours A/B'ing it to my other steel strings. I guess I'm still not a Taylor guy, because it will be shipping back to the dealer tomorrow.

First of all, it's a gorgeous guitar aesthetically...just checks all the boxes for me. This one had a gorgeous top with tons of cross-silking and beautifully darkened by the torrefaction process. The set of EIR was as nice as I've ever seen....dark chocolatey straight-grained goodness with some deep purple hues. Because of how dark the EIR was, the Sapele binding just popped...stunning! Flawless and super clean construction throughout. It played like a dream. The set-up was perfect, and it has a very intimate feel for a full size guitar. The new compound neck geometry is just incredible and easily one of my favorite necks ever.

I wanted to love this guitar so badly, but TONE IS KING, and it just fell short to my ears when compared to my other guitars. I needed it to stand out from either my Custom Shop D-28GE or my Custom Stonebridge OO, and it just didn't. By comparison, it was rather tame; and though a bit of a departure for them, I still found the tone to be Taylor-esque (not a bad thing, just an observation). It didn't have the volume, bass, clarity, resonance, or fat trebles of my Stonebridge (which also has Elixer Nanowebs on it), nor the volume, bass, clarity, or punch of my Martin. The 717 is great overall guitar, but to my ear, just not sonically as good of a rhythm or flatpicking guitar as my CS D-28GE, nor as sonically good of a fingerstyle guitar as my Stonebridge. I didn't expect it to BE either of these guitars, but I thought it might stand out in enough ways from one of them to make me want to keep it...unfortunately, it didn't. But it's quite a versatile guitar, and if I had to summarize it, I'd say it's maybe a "Jack of all trades, but Master of none". Just my 2-cents, YMMV.

However, it's a really fun guitar that sounds great overall, and if I had a $2500 budget and was looking for a guitar to be my one and only, then this would be a great candidate. I can certainly understand the appeal of the Grand Pacifics...they're a great addition for Taylor, and will make many a player very happy!

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by drplayer

Well, I received a Grand Pacific Builder's Edition 717 earlier today and just spent a couple hours A/B'ing it to my other steel strings. I guess I'm still not a Taylor guy, because it will be shipping back to the dealer tomorrow.

First of all, it's a gorgeous guitar aesthetically...just checks all the boxes for me. This one had a gorgeous top with tons of cross-silking and beautifully darkened by the torrefaction process. The set of EIR was as nice as I've ever seen....dark chocolatey straight-grained goodness with some deep purple hues. Because of how dark the EIR was, the Sapele binding just popped...stunning! Flawless and super clean construction throughout. It played like a dream. The set-up was perfect, and it has a very intimate feel for a full size guitar. The new compound neck geometry is just incredible and easily one of my favorite necks ever.

I wanted to love this guitar so badly, but TONE IS KING, and it just fell short to my ears when compared to my other guitars. I needed it to stand out from either my Custom Shop D-28GE or my Custom Stonebridge OO, and it just didn't. By comparison, it was rather tame; and though a bit of a departure for them, I still found the tone to be Taylor-esque (not a bad thing, just an observation). It didn't have the volume, bass, clarity, resonance, or fat trebles of my Stonebridge (which also has Elixer Nanowebs on it), nor the volume, bass, clarity, or punch of my Martin. The 717 is great overall guitar, but to my ear, just not sonically as good of a rhythm or flatpicking guitar as my CS D-28GE, nor as sonically good of a fingerstyle guitar as my Stonebridge. I didn't expect it to BE either of these guitars, but I thought it might stand out in enough ways from one of them to make me want to keep it...unfortunately, it didn't. But it's quite a versatile guitar, and if I had to summarize it, I'd say it's maybe a "Jack of all trades, but Master of none". Just my 2-cents, YMMV.

However, it's a really fun guitar that sounds great, and if I had a $2500 budget and was looking for a guitar to be my one and only, then this would be a great candidate. I can certainly understand the appeal of the Grand Pacifics...they're a great addition for Taylor, and will make many a player very happy!

For $2500 you gotta love it man. It’s just got to happen for you. Too bad...

[Groberts]

Originally Posted by drplayer

Well, I received a Grand Pacific Builder's Edition 717 earlier today and just spent a couple hours A/B'ing it to my other steel strings. I guess I'm still not a Taylor guy, because it will be shipping back to the dealer tomorrow.

First of all, it's a gorgeous guitar aesthetically...just checks all the boxes for me. This one had a gorgeous top with tons of cross-silking and beautifully darkened by the torrefaction process. The set of EIR was as nice as I've ever seen....dark chocolatey straight-grained goodness with some deep purple hues. Because of how dark the EIR was, the Sapele binding just popped...stunning! Flawless and super clean construction throughout. It played like a dream. The set-up was perfect, and it has a very intimate feel for a full size guitar. The new compound neck geometry is just incredible and easily one of my favorite necks ever.

I wanted to love this guitar so badly, but TONE IS KING, and it just fell short to my ears when compared to my other guitars. I needed it to stand out from either my Custom Shop D-28GE or my Custom Stonebridge OO, and it just didn't. By comparison, it was rather tame; and though a bit of a departure for them, I still found the tone to be Taylor-esque (not a bad thing, just an observation). It didn't have the volume, bass, clarity, resonance, or fat trebles of my Stonebridge (which also has Elixer Nanowebs on it), nor the volume, bass, clarity, or punch of my Martin. The 717 is great overall guitar, but to my ear, just not sonically as good of a rhythm or flatpicking guitar as my CS D-28GE, nor as sonically good of a fingerstyle guitar as my Stonebridge. I didn't expect it to BE either of these guitars, but I thought it might stand out in enough ways from one of them to make me want to keep it...unfortunately, it didn't. But it's quite a versatile guitar, and if I had to summarize it, I'd say it's maybe a "Jack of all trades, but Master of none". Just my 2-cents, YMMV.

However, it's a really fun guitar that sounds great overall, and if I had a $2500 budget and was looking for a guitar to be my one and only, then this would be a great candidate. I can certainly understand the appeal of the Grand Pacifics...they're a great addition for Taylor, and will make many a player very happy!

I greatly value your candor, comparison and contrast. I fully understand spect when I bring one home to demo and record (on loan) I will come to the same
Conclusion. I totally get the “ jack of all trades “ reference.

[jklotz]

Here's an interesting take on it. I had a couple hours to kill today and went to a local shop that stocks a lot of high end stuff. Mostly Martin, Gibson and Taylor. (well, high end big builders, no small luthier type stuff) I must have played 20 guitars today, including a couple of 900 series and bto Taylors and a few Martin cs guitars. The 2 standouts were a plain jane Martin 000-18 and the Taylor 517. Which is interesting to me, because I almost always prefer rosewood, particularly when paired with a sitka top. Yea, I know, part of that maybe was the condition of the strings, but I've been at this long enough that I can sort of see beyond that to some degree. I know a good one when I play it, and am pretty good at looking beyond set up and strings.

Long story short, I had the 517e and the 717 side by side, in an empty room with nobody around, and I wasn't in a hurry. I really wanted to like the 717, but to me it was just kind of blah. I mean it was nice, loved the neck and setup, but the tone was nothing special. But the 517e really had something special about it. I was so tempted to walk out with it, but keeping peace on the homefront prevailed (I believe they call that "wisdom", right?). I really liked that guitar though.

If anybody is in the market for a really good 517e or a surprisingly good 000-18, pm me and I'll tell you the shop. No affiliation btw.

I'm sure there are amazing 717's out there, but the one I played today was not one of them. No mystery here folks - you gotta play them to know. As consistant as Taylor is, there are still duds and gems regardless of the hype.

[Hoopla]

Originally Posted by jklotz

Here's an interesting take on it. I had a couple hours to kill today and went to a local shop that stocks a lot of high end stuff. Mostly Martin, Gibson and Taylor. (well, high end big builders, no small luthier type stuff) I must have played 20 guitars today, including a couple of 900 series and bto Taylors and a few Martin cs guitars. The 2 standouts were a plain jane Martin 000-18 and the Taylor 517. Which is interesting to me, because I almost always prefer rosewood, particularly when paired with a sitka top. Yea, I know, part of that maybe was the condition of the strings, but I've been at this long enough that I can sort of see beyond that to some degree. I know a good one when I play it, and am pretty good at looking beyond set up and strings.

Long story short, I had the 517e and the 717 side by side, in an empty room with nobody around, and I wasn't in a hurry. I really wanted to like the 717, but to me it was just kind of blah. I mean it was nice, loved the neck and setup, but the tone was nothing special. But the 517e really had something special about it. I was so tempted to walk out with it, but keeping peace on the homefront prevailed (I believe they call that "wisdom", right?). I really liked that guitar though.

If anybody is in the market for a really good 517e or a surprisingly good 000-18, pm me and I'll tell you the shop. No affiliation btw.

I'm sure there are amazing 717's out there, but the one I played today was not one of them. No mystery here folks - you gotta play them to know. As consistant as Taylor is, there are still duds and gems regardless of the hype.

I concur. Played both and found the 717 to be muddy and lacking clarity while I found the 517 to be crisp and much more balanced to my my ear at least.

[TDavis]

Originally Posted by jklotz

Here's an interesting take on it. I had a couple hours to kill today and went to a local shop that stocks a lot of high end stuff. Mostly Martin, Gibson and Taylor. (well, high end big builders, no small luthier type stuff) I must have played 20 guitars today, including a couple of 900 series and bto Taylors and a few Martin cs guitars. The 2 standouts were a plain jane Martin 000-18 and the Taylor 517. Which is interesting to me, because I almost always prefer rosewood, particularly when paired with a sitka top. Yea, I know, part of that maybe was the condition of the strings, but I've been at this long enough that I can sort of see beyond that to some degree. I know a good one when I play it, and am pretty good at looking beyond set up and strings.

Long story short, I had the 517e and the 717 side by side, in an empty room with nobody around, and I wasn't in a hurry. I really wanted to like the 717, but to me it was just kind of blah. I mean it was nice, loved the neck and setup, but the tone was nothing special. But the 517e really had something special about it. I was so tempted to walk out with it, but keeping peace on the homefront prevailed (I believe they call that "wisdom", right?). I really liked that guitar though.

If anybody is in the market for a really good 517e or a surprisingly good 000-18, pm me and I'll tell you the shop. No affiliation btw.

I'm sure there are amazing 717's out there, but the one I played today was not one of them. No mystery here folks - you gotta play them to know. As consistant as Taylor is, there are still duds and gems regardless of the hype.

James...tried replying to your PM & your box is full! Thanks.

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by drplayer

Well, I received a Grand Pacific Builder's Edition 717 earlier today and just spent a couple hours A/B'ing it to my other steel strings. I guess I'm still not a Taylor guy, because it will be shipping back to the dealer tomorrow.

First of all, it's a gorgeous guitar aesthetically...just checks all the boxes for me. This one had a gorgeous top with tons of cross-silking and beautifully darkened by the torrefaction process. The set of EIR was as nice as I've ever seen....dark chocolatey straight-grained goodness with some deep purple hues. Because of how dark the EIR was, the Sapele binding just popped...stunning! Flawless and super clean construction throughout. It played like a dream. The set-up was perfect, and it has a very intimate feel for a full size guitar. The new compound neck geometry is just incredible and easily one of my favorite necks ever.

I wanted to love this guitar so badly, but TONE IS KING, and it just fell short to my ears when compared to my other guitars. I needed it to stand out from either my Custom Shop D-28GE or my Custom Stonebridge OO, and it just didn't. By comparison, it was rather tame; and though a bit of a departure for them, I still found the tone to be Taylor-esque (not a bad thing, just an observation). It didn't have the volume, bass, clarity, resonance, or fat trebles of my Stonebridge (which also has Elixer Nanowebs on it), nor the volume, bass, clarity, or punch of my Martin. The 717 is great overall guitar, but to my ear, just not sonically as good of a rhythm or flatpicking guitar as my CS D-28GE, nor as sonically good of a fingerstyle guitar as my Stonebridge. I didn't expect it to BE either of these guitars, but I thought it might stand out in enough ways from one of them to make me want to keep it...unfortunately, it didn't. But it's quite a versatile guitar, and if I had to summarize it, I'd say it's maybe a "Jack of all trades, but Master of none". Just my 2-cents, YMMV.

However, it's a really fun guitar that sounds great overall, and if I had a $2500 budget and was looking for a guitar to be my one and only, then this would be a great candidate. I can certainly understand the appeal of the Grand Pacifics...they're a great addition for Taylor, and will make many a player very happy!

I have to be honest....I do feel a slight bit of guilt for causing such a stir in this thread. My excitement for the 717 while 100% genuine, was never meant to persuade or "convince" anyone to go out and buy one. I just want to make that clear lol.

Secondly, I must admit that I've been on an acoustic search for years for something that could have the volume of a dread, but the tone of an OM. I personally don't think that the Martin dread sound is the "be all end all" of acoustic guitar tone as it is sometimes heralded.

The only reason I own, and have owned Martin Dreads is because I wanted the biggest sounding and loudest guitars available. But, loud and big doesn't always equal what my ear really wants to hear.

I think that the 717 for me is the first guitar I've ever owned that gives me volume and a bold yet balanced guitar that is comfortable to play for long periods of time. That, and the aesthetic is just brilliant for me.

So, having said all that, I am not intending to say that the Grand Pacifics sound better or are better than Martins. It's just that the GPs fit me personally, and that is why I'm so excited about them.

[btaylor]

Originally Posted by Shades of Blue

I have to be honest....I do feel a slight bit of guilt for causing such a stir in this thread. My excitement for the 717 while 100% genuine, was never meant to persuade or "convince" anyone to go out and buy one. I just want to make that clear lol.

Secondly, I must admit that I've been on an acoustic search for years for something that could have the volume of a dread, but the tone of an OM. I personally don't think that the Martin dread sound is the "be all end all" of acoustic guitar tone as it is sometimes heralded.

The only reason I own, and have owned Martin Dreads is because I wanted the biggest sounding and loudest guitars available. But, loud and big doesn't always equal what my ear really wants to hear.

I think that the 717 for me is the first guitar I've ever owned that gives me volume and a bold yet balanced guitar that is comfortable to play for long periods of time. That, and the aesthetic is just brilliant for me.

So, having said all that, I am not intending to say that the Grand Pacifics sound better or are better than Martins. It's just that the GPs fit me personally, and that is why I'm so excited about them.

Absolutely agree! I was thinking the same thing yesterday about my GP 717. I love this guitar and it fits how I play and what I do perfectly like no other guitar has previously done, at least to my ears. I too am excited about my new GP!

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by btaylor

Absolutely agree! I was thinking the same thing yesterday about my GP 717. I love this guitar and it fits how I play and what I do perfectly like no other guitar has previously done, at least to my ears. I too am excited about my new GP!

My 517 should be here tomorrow. I plan to spend most of the day Saturday with it and will report initial impressions. If I like it as much as I do the 717, I plan to sell my D-18 and Grand Pacifics will be my top 2 guitars.