Volume reduction from cutaway?

[Deliberate1]

I like the design of a well-executed cutaway, especially a Florentine, and particularly on an OM. Just over two months ago, I took delivery of this one built for me. https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=678716. Forgive me if I say it is the most elegant guitar I have ever laid eyes on, and the most comfortable I have ever played. And in European Moon Spruce and European Maple, it sounds like it looks - refined and crystalline.

I do wonder, however, if the very presence of a cutaway inevitably reduces the maximum potential sonic volume that the guitar can produce, as compared to an identical box without the reduction in interior volume caused by the cutaway.

I have no practical understanding of what happens inside the box once the string is plucked, though I have some sense that much of the magic is conjured in the lower bout.

If there is a discernible loss, do luthiers compensate in some fashion, like adding some depth to the body to replace the lost volume - space and sound?

Obliged.

David

[TBman]

I haven't noticed that my non-cutaways are louder than my cutaways. I'm not looking for volume though, I'm chasing musicality.

[Silly Moustache]

As a nay sayer for cutaways on acoustics, I like to challenge the notion of buying a certain sized guitar for its sonic quality and power then cutting a great lump out of it out, but in reality I don't s'pose it makes much difference.

To me they just look - broken, but 12 frets has always been enough for me.

[Rockysdad]

I happen to really like a Florentine cutaway.

I don't own one and, I've not noticed a difference in same maker, one with & one without.

I'm curious if you had this conversation with your builder, and if not why?

[rick-slo]

Might be a little change in Helmholtz resonance frequency (think of blowing into a jug) but very little top vibration in that area of the guitar so not much else.

[Talk2Me]

This topic comes up every now and then on this site. A search will show them as well as the fact that while people have their opinions there's no definitive answer to your question.

[KevWind]

While it is true that there is a reduction in the overall square inches of the Top. So logically a reduction of the area that can be vibrating.
But...It is also likely that any percent reduction in volume potential (if any) is also not likely to be noticeable

That coupled with the practical logistical fact that is impossible to have a simultaneous A/B comparison of the same guitar with and without a cutaway
Kinda renders the discussion a moot point

So what it really boils down to simply subjective personal aesthetics being the only valid reason to like/not like or purchase/not purchase a cutaway Or don't care either way ..

[Sadie-f]

Should be ~zero effect on volume, I agree that there will be a (small+) shift in helmholtz resonance, maybe as much as it would shift - in going from a 14 to 12 fret body.

The area of the top above the sound hole barely resonates, and so the cut away is probably felt a little bit in harmonics/overtones, also probably smaller effect than differences between otherwise similar guitars.

[Deliberate1]

Cheers all.
David

[The Bard Rocks]

For years, I tried to find a reason for my dislike of cutaways. It boiled down to visual preference as I was unable to discern a difference in tone or volume. Tap on the upper bout, then the lower, and you will hear a huge difference in response, which demonstrates to me you can do a lot of things to the upper bout and it will not much affect what you hear.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

…I do wonder, however, if the very presence of a cutaway inevitably reduces the maximum potential sonic volume that the guitar can produce, as compared to an identical box without the reduction in interior volume caused by the cutaway.

Hi D1…
I own a Bashkin OM - fanned fret - cutaway - Myrtlewood/Italian Spruce. I've played over 3 dozen Bashkins over the past few years, and most were cutaway with less than a dozen not.

The 'not' category were NOT louder than the others, nor were they more sonically pleasing. They didn't project more, and they only difference to me was they are harder to play above the 15th fret (which I do) than the cutaways.

I was not a fan of his cutaways based on the pictures of them, but the first day I visited his shop to discuss him building a guitar for me, there was an OM cutaway sitting in the room with a cutaway, and it was so beautiful in person, and so much better looking than the picture showed.

I live 45 minutes from his shop and for about a 3 year period, I'd drive down and play guitars as they came off the bench (or shortly afterwards) for a couple hours to help 'play them in', so they'd stabilize before he set them up to ship - especially the overseas orders.

When I was discussing the sonic implications of the possible loss of volume with Michael, he mentioned that the area the cutaway is taken from is not especially 'sonic' nor sonically 'active' compared to the area around the bridge and the belly area below it.

I picked up a couple he had that day in the shop and tried tapping in different regions around the top, and it settled 2 things for me. Cutaways or pick guards 'rob' tone nor projection from guitars (at least from well engineered guitars).

Since, I've tapped potential guitar for me (or friends) and found the same to be true. It's something you can do yourself.

I play above the 15th a lot, but even if I only played up to fret 15 it would still be my choice to have a cutaway for two reasons…
…Easier access to the upper neck
…a Cutaway looks nicer to my eye

In these considerations, I never factor audiences in, they don't really notice these things like players do. They just want to hear good playing.

[abn556]

I had a J-185 EC for over two decades that never sounded as good as I expected. At first I thought the flamed maple needed some time to open up, but over time when the guitar just didn’t have the volume I thought a J-185 should have I started to suspect the combination of the cutaway and electronics were taking something away from the guitar. The guitar played great and was a beautiful piece, but I moved it because I never could shake the idea that it didn’t sound as good as it should. Due to that I never really bonded with the guitar, which is the kiss of death for me and a guitar. If I don’t love them, I will eventually move them. I kept this particular guitar a long time thinking that it would get better, but in the end it never did.

[Misifus]

I am not persuaded that a cutaway has any negative effect on acoustic guitar sound.

[Mandobart]

I have one guitar with a cutaway - my Altamira M20D Sel-Mac copy. It is the loudest non-resonator acoustic guitar I've ever played.

[jpmist]

My last google-dive led me to a video of someone showing how a top vibrates and what I drew from that was that the part of the top where the saddle usually lands offers the majority of the top vibration both in frequencies and intensity.

The upper bouts don't seem to add much as they are stranded above the sound hole. Lopping off less than 5% of the top surface area of the tightest least vibration part of the top means to me that the difference between a cutaway and non is pretty small.