L.R. Baggs elements / with or without

[paul300]

Happy new year dear forum!

I have a nice sounding and very mellow 2018 Gibson southern jumbo.
I’m hesitating to take out the LR baggs pickup. After what I heard many people say it improves the sound.
How would you describe the improvements?
Only louder .. more responsiveness .. brighter or mellower ?
I want to change my tusq saddle for a compensated bone saddle too.
Many thanks in advance

[12barBill]

Give it time. People will weigh in. Here is an older thread that may help:

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=515992

jseth may comment if he sees this.

[paul300]

Thank you !

Originally Posted by 12barBill

Give it time. People will weigh in. Here is an older thread that may help:

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=515992

jseth may comment if he sees this.

[SpruceTop]

IMHO, the Element isn't a bad pickup and overall system.

[dilver]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

IMHO, the Element isn't a bad pickup and overall system.

It’s not bad, but it still does that brittle tone thing when pushed hard. Definitely better when played lightly. I just wish you could reuse the existing Element and buy the Anthem pickup separately, vs. having to buy the Element + Anthem package.

[12barBill]

Originally Posted by paul300

Happy new year dear forum!

I have a nice sounding and very mellow 2018 Gibson southern jumbo.
I’m hesitating to take out the LR baggs pickup. After what I heard many people say it improves the sound.
How would you describe the improvements?
Only louder .. more responsiveness .. brighter or mellower ?
I want to change my tusq saddle for a compensated bone saddle too.
Many thanks in advance

It's a little confusing what you are asking. Are you suggesting you think the Element under saddle pickup may improve the "acoustic" (not plugged in) tone of the guitar?

[dilver]

Originally Posted by 12barBill

It's a little confusing what you are asking. Are you suggesting you think the Element under saddle pickup may improve the "acoustic" (not plugged in) tone of the guitar?

He’s just asking if removing the Element will improve his tone, volume, resonance, etc.

[paul300]

Originally Posted by dilver

He’s just asking if removing the Element will improve his tone, volume, resonance, etc.

Yes exactly thanks

[jonfields45]

With an IR the Element can sound fantastic. Here is an example of my IR at work with the similar Fishman Sonitone coax UST.

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=634568

Years ago I was enamored of the Schatten HFN pickup and ultimately installed them into two identical RainSong parlor guitars (really should be the same unlike wood), one of which came with a Baggs Element. When I first removed the Element and restrung the the guitar, my reaction was wow, it sounds better (maybe in comparison to having no strings on the guitar :~). When I got it upstairs and played it against its twin, they still sounded identical.

There is no simple controlled experiment that could be done to prove taking the Element out is good for tone. I seriously doubt Gibson (and Martin with the similar Fishman coax) would be routinely installing them if they hurt their tone and their in-person A vs B sales (old fashioned but not forgot in the Internet era). And finally there is enormous expectation bias in everything you've read. You expect improvement and you hear it. I suspect most of the saddle and bridge pin upgrades fall into the same camp too. Tusq is a cast ceramic, with a nice ring if you drop it on a hard surface, and likely harder than most bone. Next time you have a bone-in steak, compare the bone to your plate for knife marks.

[DM3MD]

Any changes you make to a guitar regarding removing a pickup, changing the saddle, pins, etc. will always have a change in your guitars tone. What changes it will bring to YOUR guitar and how YOUR ears recognize it is left to be determined.

If it were my guitar and you wanted the pickup gone because you’re not using it, then do it. If you’re hoping that your Gibson will go from a really sweet guitar to the most impressive acoustic on the planet just by removing the Element UST, it’s not going to happen.

Experiment a little. Try different saddle materials, strings, and pins. Again, removing the Element UST will change your tone. How much you perceive is for you to report back to us!

[paul300]

Hi thanks

I just ordered a bone saddle and looking forward for some modifications.
I'll definitely keep you posted.
I'm already happy with the acoustic sound just miss a bit responsiveness maybe.

Originally Posted by DM3MD

Any changes you make to a guitar regarding removing a pickup, changing the saddle, pins, etc. will always have a change in your guitars tone. What changes it will bring to YOUR guitar and how YOUR ears recognize it is left to be determined.

If it were my guitar and you wanted the pickup gone because you’re not using it, then do it. If you’re hoping that your Gibson will go from a really sweet guitar to the most impressive acoustic on the planet just by removing the Element UST, it’s not going to happen.

Experiment a little. Try different saddle materials, strings, and pins. Again, removing the Element UST will change your tone. How much you perceive is for you to report back to us!

[paul300]

Hi yes I have a hx stomp with a nice j45 IR I purchased. That sounds very good.
I have a friend who does the same but with his K&K mini and he is very happy.

Originally Posted by jonfields45

With an IR the Element can sound fantastic. Here is an example of my IR at work with the similar Fishman Sonitone coax UST.

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=634568

Years ago I was enamored of the Schatten HFN pickup and ultimately installed them into two identical RainSong parlor guitars (really should be the same unlike wood), one of which came with a Baggs Element. When I first removed the Element and restrung the the guitar, my reaction was wow, it sounds better (maybe in comparison to having no strings on the guitar :~). When I got it upstairs and played it against its twin, they still sounded identical.

There is no simple controlled experiment that could be done to prove taking the Element out is good for tone. I seriously doubt Gibson (and Martin with the similar Fishman coax) would be routinely installing them if they hurt their tone and their in-person A vs B sales (old fashioned but not forgot in the Internet era). And finally there is enormous expectation bias in everything you've read. You expect improvement and you hear it. I suspect most of the saddle and bridge pin upgrades fall into the same camp too. Tusq is a cast ceramic, with a nice ring if you drop it on a hard surface, and likely harder than most bone. Next time you have a bone-in steak, compare the bone to your plate for knife marks.

[dilver]

Originally Posted by paul300

Hi thanks

I just ordered a bone saddle and looking forward for some modifications.
I'll definitely keep you posted.
I'm already happy with the acoustic sound just miss a bit responsiveness maybe.

I’m assuming you’ll make the height of the bone saddle a little taller than the current to accommodate the loss of the Element UST? Curious what you find as I replaced the Tusq saddle with bone but kept the Element UST. There is a difference vs the Tusq saddle.

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by paul300

Hi yes I have a hx stomp with a nice j45 IR I purchased. That sounds very good.
I have a friend who does the same but with his K&K mini and he is very happy.

Glad to hear my IR generator is getting some use! I am currently getting asked about once a week to generate them for someone, for which it is my pleasure to help out! I usually convince the person to give me several recordings for each guitar with the mic near (~8") and far (~16"). It only takes seconds to run the script and I have a second trivially different version for people who put the pickup/mic in the opposite channels to my original spec.

[paul300]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

Glad to hear my IR generator is getting some use! I am currently getting asked about once a week to generate them for someone, for which it is my pleasure to help out! I usually convince the person to give me several recordings for each guitar with the mic near (~8") and far (~16"). It only takes seconds to run the script and I have a second trivially different version for people who put the pickup/mic in the opposite channels to my original spec.

That’s super nice of you
Would you mind me sending over samples ?