All ears method disadvantages?

[Deliberate1]

I come at this perhaps, from a different direction. And different instruments. But I think the concepts are universal.
I am a classically trained clarinetist and jazz saxophonist. I learned how to read music as a kid. To play in ensembles and jazz orchestras, you have to be able to read music.
But that is only part of the skill set you need. In college, I started putting records on and playing with them - all the greats: Brubeck, Evans, Stitt, Desmond, etc. Over time, I developed a very good ear. So much so that, now, if I can hear it, I can improvise over the changes, even if cannot read them, or there are none to read.
But I always felt limited by an inability to read changes, something I am called on to do a lot as lead tenor in a big band. But that is changing. I took up guitar last year. And began with a teacher just over a year ago. It is not what I expected. It has been about music theory: scales, triads, finger patterns and now, phrase construction with secondary dominants. It hurts my brain, but is giving me the skills to read changes, whether on guitar, clarinet or sax.
In a nutshell, reading music teaches you the piece. Ear training teaches you your instrument.
Wish you well.
David

[TJE]

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

I come at this perhaps, from a different direction. And different instruments. But I think the concepts are universal.
I am a classically trained clarinetist and jazz saxophonist. I learned how to read music as a kid. To play in ensembles and jazz orchestras, you have to be able to read music.
But that is only part of the skill set you need. In college, I started putting records on and playing with them - all the greats: Brubeck, Evans, Stitt, Desmond, etc. Over time, I developed a very good ear. So much so that, now, if I can hear it, I can improvise over the changes, even if cannot read them, or there are none to read.
But I always felt limited by an inability to read changes, something I am called on to do a lot as lead tenor in a big band. But that is changing. I took up guitar last year. And began with a teacher just over a year ago. It is not what I expected. It has been about music theory: scales, triads, finger patterns and now, phrase construction with secondary dominants. It hurts my brain, but is giving me the skills to read changes, whether on guitar, clarinet or sax.
In a nutshell, reading music teaches you the piece. Ear training teaches you your instrument.
Wish you well.
David

Great post David!😁

[The Bard Rocks]

Originally Posted by BlueStarfish

What does music notation NOT do well? For a guitarist, I think notation does a poor job of specifying exactly what our fingers are supposed to do at a particular moment. Lead sheet notation leaves it up to the guitarist to fill that in themselves. If more specificity is required, tabs work better (especially with alternate tunings, though I haven’t spent much time with those).

E.

Ha, ha - that is one of the things I don't like about tab! Different strokes....

Someone mentioned earlier about it being easier to transcribe your own compositions. That is not always the case. Ask me how I know. And I transcribe each of my own compositions. They do not feel "done" to me until I have completed that part. To actually see it finished give me almost as much pleasure as hearing it.

[EZYPIKINS]

Who are the greats of which you speak. Paul McCartney can't read or write music either one. That doesn't stop him from being a musical genius. Have worked with readers, and have worked with by ear players. Much prefer the ear player. More feeling and soul. You can write notes and time signatures. But you cant write feeling.

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by MartinGibsonFan

Sprint Bob mentions the Slow Downer.

I've heard about this before and it really intrigues me, this is one thing that could probably help?

I'd be curious if others have had success with a slow downer to improve their technique?

How much is a Slow Downer? Or is it mostly just included in a DAW?

J

I think the iPad app was (gasp) $15 and the PC download is about $30. I’ve used the iPad app for 5 years. It’s paid itself off BIG time.

[DaveKell]

I have a good friend who is at the top of the heap of fingerstyle players in Texas. He has a stack of every Chet Atkins album ever recorded. He taught himself to play by learning every song on both sides of all those albums. Tabs didn’t exist when he began. He told me some songs took days to master but his personal goal was learning all of them. Last year he was in Dollywood. A friend of his there told him the guitarist for a band headlining a concert there that night had taken seriously ill and the band was facing having to cancel. This guy talked them into giving my friend a shot, even though it was just a few hours til the show and he didn’t know the songs. They rushed through a half hour rehearsal where my friend perfectly filled in, even improvising solos. The show went so well my friend was offered a job with the band’s current tour. He couldn’t take it but did play when their tour reached our home town in Texas. I guess like an experienced pilot who can fly any aircraft, there are some stellar guitarists who can play any song!

[pegleghowell]

When it comes to learning your eyes and your ears are your best friends.

[Andyrondack]

Originally Posted by Lamenramen

Hi, I am into fingerstyle and keep hearing that the greats never use tabs and transcribe all the music they want to play.

Is this really the fastest way to technical and musical proficiency? If so why? Should I wait until I am an advanced player?

I would imagine that working on your ears will help you get a better innate feeling of the fretboard and musicality but would I be better off looking at a few tabs first to improve my technique to a certain level and then go all ears? Otherwise I am spending all my energy figuring out a note when I could just look at the tab and focus on practicing the song sooner.
How many of you swear by the all ears method and what do you do when you get frustrated and now that the answer is a google search away.

I do both, I had some musical training at school so I can read music but I also know how easy it can be to read music wrong, these days we can slow down a recording of pieces we are learning and judge that way whether our reading is acurate or not.
I had a few lessons from a jazz guitarist who taught me the necessary basics of music theory which for me was vital in gaining enough of an understanding of how music works that I can create my own harmonised arrangements of melodies, so my learning method consists of playing along to a slowed down recording of a melody to which I usually also have some kind of transcription, I endevour to learn by ear as far as possible but there is often a bar or two where I am really not sure if I have got it right or not so when I have had enough of trying by ear I give up and look at the transcription.
This is a great way to learn , but you need an understanding of music theory to build an arrangement from the basic un adorned melody , so do some study online of scales melodies harmony and chords and how they relate to each other, then get a recording of a familiar tune in a major scale to which you also have a transcription. Play the recording slowed down through a phone app, select the first few bars put it on repeat and play along trying to get the tune right, then learn how to read the notes in the transcription taking note of the key signature ( you can teach yourself to do this or pay a music teacher) understanding how to read the rythmn and time signature is not relevant for this exercise because you are listening to the recording which tells you how it is supposed to sound, you will need to identify which key the music is in so just Google how to do that and then get a pencil and go through the written score witing the scale number of each note above the actual note, so for a tune in C major C will be 1 D 2 G 5 etc, this will set you on the road to gaining an understanding of how music works and you will be able to easilly transpose between keys, a vital skill as not every melody can be arranged easily in any key on the guitar, and if you sing you will want to transpose to a key that suits your voice.
Well that will start you down a long road going in the right direction, for me where learning by ear does not work is learning complete arrangements by ear, I like to play fingerstyle pieces like Davy Graham's Anji or ragtime pieces like The Entertainer and Dallas rag but learning such complete arrangements by ear alone is beyond my ability, if I had not had any training in reading music it would be harder but I think I could still learn such pieces by reading TAB and listening very carefully to a slowed down recording of the piece cut down into small sections.
I found the Acoustic Guitar magazine books on fingerstyle guitar to be very good as they try to teach an understanding of the theory underlying guitar arrangements.

[geewhiz]

Learn as much as you can by ear and don’t rely on tabs or sheet music. Learn the theory behind what you’re learning as you go, or at least have some idea of how notes and intervals relate to the chords you’re playing, and how the chords relate to the key. Unless you have a specific need to know how to sight read, ear training will get your further down the road if you’re an amateur or even semi-pro, and it will give you skills to play spontaneously with other musicians. Many of the best Nashville session guys don’t read traditional notation - they use a numbering system shorthand and rely heavily on their ears and instincts.

If you do have the time and inclination though, the ability to read and write music is a fantastic tool to have at your disposal. In my opinion it is not an essential skill, or at least it’s not essential to be fluent in it.

As others have already said though, the best approach is what works for you and your needs.

[JGinNJ]

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

I come at this perhaps, from a different direction. And different instruments. But I think the concepts are universal.
I am a classically trained clarinetist and jazz saxophonist. I learned how to read music as a kid. To play in ensembles and jazz orchestras, you have to be able to read music.
But that is only part of the skill set you need. In college, I started putting records on and playing with them - all the greats: Brubeck, Evans, Stitt, Desmond, etc. Over time, I developed a very good ear. So much so that, now, if I can hear it, I can improvise over the changes, even if cannot read them, or there are none to read.
But I always felt limited by an inability to read changes, something I am called on to do a lot as lead tenor in a big band. But that is changing. I took up guitar last year. And began with a teacher just over a year ago. It is not what I expected. It has been about music theory: scales, triads, finger patterns and now, phrase construction with secondary dominants. It hurts my brain, but is giving me the skills to read changes, whether on guitar, clarinet or sax.
In a nutshell, reading music teaches you the piece. Ear training teaches you your instrument.
Wish you well.
David

^This! There's a lot of people advocating for "ears only" on this thread that seems to be driven by whether they can read music or not, or whether some famous musician can. But that's like saying it's better to be illiterate.

Like David, I grew up learning to read music, both for trumpet and guitar. Tab was something guitar players who didn't know how to read music used. I'll use it if I'm trying to learn an arrangement or style and need to learn specific fingerings. Transcribing is very helpful, of course. Now I'll use it to learn specific licks, but in my early music training my (trumpet) teacher had me learn Lester Young and Louis Armstrong solos.
With guitar, I use lead sheets (just melody line and chord names) or piano arrangements all the time to learn tunes. It's really the best way to accurately learn a tune the way it was written- if you learn soley by ear, you're copying the interpretation of a particular artist.

[geewhiz]

Originally Posted by JGinNJ

^This! There's a lot of people advocating for "ears only" on this thread that seems to be driven by whether they can read music or not, or whether some famous musician can. But that's like saying it's better to be illiterate.

Like David, I grew up learning to read music, both for trumpet and guitar. Tab was something guitar players who didn't know how to read music used. I'll use it if I'm trying to learn an arrangement or style and need to learn specific fingerings. Transcribing is very helpful, of course. Now I'll use it to learn specific licks, but in my early music training my (trumpet) teacher had me learn Lester Young and Louis Armstrong solos.
With guitar, I use lead sheets (just melody line and chord names) or piano arrangements all the time to learn tunes. It's really the best way to accurately learn a tune the way it was written- if you learn soley by ear, you're copying the interpretation of a particular artist.

Excellent points, and I don't really disagree with two minor exceptions. First of all, a lot of "sheet music" for guitar is woefully inaccurate and watered down. And as for learning by ear and learning the interpretation of a particular artists versus how it was written, the original composer/artist's recording is readily available for the majority of guitar oriented music. So you're learning it the way the original composer played it. Maybe I missed your point though, and if I did I apologize.

I am not a fluent sight reader. I took a few theory classes in college and I've studied independently and I know the mechanics of it. I was a drummer in school and in drum corps too, so that helped with reading rhythms. But to say I know the mechanics of it doesn't mean that I can play single lines or changes from something you put in front of me. Is it a skill that I wish I had developed more? Yes, absolutely (and in my case I think it would be particularly useful for composing and having the ability to document my ideas versus relying on recording or memory). But I would still say that for guitar and for the majority of situations a guitar player would find themselves in, I'd favor a developed ear and some knowledge of theory over the ability to sight read fluently. For my purposes and in my case, that is. Not everyone's needs are the same.

As I implied in my response above, if someone has the time and inclination - and practical need - I think both skills are great tools to have in your toolbox.