MLB sign stealing scandal

[Fogducker]

Mickey Mantle's last "at bat" was against Denny McLain in Detroit. McLain was throwing him fast balls to drive out. Detroit's catcher went out and told McLain, "He wants it a little bit higher" , Mickey subsequently drove it out.

If a major leaguer knows when the fast ball is coming, he'll do a job on it.

Fog

[piper_guitarist]

Maybe I have a dissenting opinion here, but here’s my take:

Sign stealing is part of the game. It’s been part of the game since the dawn of time. Don’t want your signs stolen? Get better signs or change them periodically. If we ban or hamper sign stealing that’s just watering down the game in much the same way instant replay has.

[RP]

Thanks for putting the issue into a better focus for me. While I used to play baseball, That was a long time ago and for fun; I haven't tried to keep up with the more modern game of baseball...

[DenverSteve]

Cheating, because others are doing it, doesn't make it right or acceptable - in anything. To me, there should be standard penalties for cheating just like drunk driving or theft. If that is suspension, banishment or fines that should be the penalty for all involved which, in this case, might be every player, manager, coach and professional involved. To me it should also involve forfeiting all games from every season that cheating can be proven. Once the games are forfeited, the World Series is the last domino to fall.

[frankmcr]

The thing here is that they used technology, including film from the replay camera which they're not supposed to have access to.

If a team has a bench coach who can figure out what the other side's third base coach is signaling for, or baserunners who can pick up the catcher's signals & signal them to the batter, that's fine.

[RP]

Originally Posted by frankmcr

The thing here is that they used technology, including film from the replay camera which they're not supposed to have access to.

If a team has a bench coach who can figure out what the other side's third base coach is signaling for, or baserunners who can pick up the catcher's signals & signal them to the batter, that's fine.

So, and this is me still trying to make sense of this, stealing signals is ok; a team just can't use technology to do so???

[Dru Edwards]

Originally Posted by robj144

Is there any evidence that Cora did it with the Sox or just speculation? Cora was canned because he admitted to what he did with Houston to the Sox front office and I imagined the optics looked bad... but all I've seen so far is speculation that the Sox did it too.

As posted by reeve21, I did read that it is much more than just speculation and that the Red Sox throughout the 2018 season used technology to steal signs. It was also stated that there was no sign stealing in the playoffs.

[frankmcr]

Originally Posted by RP

So, and this is me still trying to make sense of this, stealing signals is ok; a team just can't use technology to do so???

Seems pretty straightforward. Players & coaches using their brains & observational skills to figure out signs is one thing. Some guy from the front office sneaking into the replay room to watch the TV monitor is another thing.

[raysachs]

Originally Posted by RP

So, and this is me still trying to make sense of this, stealing signals is ok; a team just can't use technology to do so???

No, neither is OK. But it's accepted that some really smart baserunners (catchers more often than anyone, but how often do catchers find themselves on 2nd base) will be able to. But if you know they're doing it, you can use countermeasures to throw them off the scent the vast majority of the time. And even if it occasionally works for a single batter, it's just one more small part of the strategy of baseball. Nonetheless, if one guy is doing it and is really good at it, he's got a very good chance of finding himself with a baseball in his ear at some point.

But a team automating it such that they can do it effectively on nearly every pitch and electronically sending the information to the batters, that's just something else entirely. I can't explain it any more than that. Neither is OK. Getting caught at either will bring consequences. But the occasionally baserunner TRYING to do it and maybe occasionally succeeding for a batter may affect the outcome of a game but more likely not. And pitchers can police that well enough. An entire team doing it on nearly every pitch and basically being right nearly all the time - that's just a HUGE advantage.

Use an example from football. It's a brutal physical sport. As a defender, you are always trying to physically punish the guys you're hitting. You're not trying to injure them, but you're trying to make them squeamish about coming into your area of the field because they know they're gonna get hit and hard. That's the game. Taken to the level that the New Orleans took it about 10 years ago, is a different thing. They were giving their players financial incentives to INJURE opposing players - to knock them out of the game, to put them out of action for chunks of a season. Totally different. Part of the game vs morally and ethically wrong and waaaaay outside the rules. I see them as kind of similar...

-Ray

[Dru Edwards]

Thinking that if MLB tried to put these types of suspensions on players that the union would get it reduced to only a few games. Much easier to go after management.

What's a suspension for PED use? Only 60 games? That's not even 1/2 a season. And the team can't void a player's contract either. So a player cheats with PEDs, gets a huge contract, gets caught (if they get caught), sits out some games, then comes back and continues to collect.

[Dru Edwards]

Wow - just read something about some Astros' players 'possibly' wearing some kind of electronic device under their jersey to help them know what pitch was coming. Not sure how this work work. Perhaps something vibrates and that lets him know it's a specific pitch that's coming, like a fastball.

I just watched a video of Altuve hitting his walk off, series winning home run off the Yankees and numerous times he's trying to ensure his teammates don't rip his jersey while getting mobbed. He quickly heads to the locker room for a new shirt. When he comes back on the field a reporter asked him why he was telling his teammates not to rip his jersey.

[frankmcr]

Originally Posted by Dru Edwards

Wow - just read something about some Astros' players 'possibly' wearing some kind of electronic device under their jersey to help them know what pitch was coming. Not sure how this work work. Perhaps something vibrates and that lets him know it's a specific pitch that's coming, like a fastball.

I just watched a video of Altuve hitting his walk off, series winning home run off the Yankees and numerous times he's trying to ensure his teammates don't rip his jersey while getting mobbed. He quickly heads to the locker room for a new shirt. When he comes back on the field a reporter asked him why he was telling his teammates not to rip his jersey.

Something like a phone set on vibrate, should be a cinch to rig up.

Of course it could just be that Altuve figured he'd get bigger bucks from some collector for an unripped jersey.

[Denny B]

Well, I certainly don't regret giving up on MLB years ago...

This sounds like a never ending soap opera..."As The Stomach Turns"....

[Otterhound]

Originally Posted by Dru Edwards

Hey Jim, yep the Red Sox will get nailed for Cora's actions. I'll be interested to hear whether Dombroski was involved ... guessing he was as well.

Pete Rose: I think one of the big things that Rose did was that he denied what he did for decades. If he had admitted from the start he'd be in the HOF now. (I think so anyway).

I totally agree about Pete , While I never was a fan of his , he sure had the numbers to earn a place . He made his mistake when he decided that Pete was bigger than the game itself and refused to humble himself for the game . In the end , the game turned it's back on Pete . He earned it all the way . Choose wisely .

[Dru Edwards]

Originally Posted by frankmcr

Something like a phone set on vibrate, should be a cinch to rig up.

Of course it could just be that Altuve figured he'd get bigger bucks from some collector for an unripped jersey.

You'd think that a guy who just hit a walk off, series winning homerun wouldn't think about that as he's rounding the bases.