The "Reverb" thread

[AcousticDreams]

Questions:

* Did the old hard plate reverbs have pre-delay? I did not know much about them back in the day. It seemed like there was only different plate settings...and then you just adjusted the amount of wet signal?

* When did Pre-delay get added to reverb units? I assume that the very first reverb units did not have any such adjustment? Did Pre-delays come in the age of Electronic reverbs? Plug in Reverbs? or before.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by RodB

I record as separate tracks and import into waveform 11. This is how I do L and R as well as M and S. It’s the easiest workflow from recording in my Sound Devices MixPre 3. So it is easy to add reverb to side before combining as a stereo track to then decode using Voxengo MSED. I combine by exporting and reimporting a rendered stereo track - i have yet to figure out a way to monitor the decoded signal whilst playing with the reverb to experiment more.

I would do it with the Voxengo decoder plugin and some bus routing, I think. Without trying it, I'd say, send the raw signal to two busses, no direct output. Put the decoder on one bus- that will be your direct MS-decoded sound. On the 2nd bus, also add a decoder, but hit the Mute Mid button, then add a reverb. Blend to taste. If your DAW lets you route to busses pre-effect, you could do it with just the reverb send.

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

Questions:

* Did the old hard plate reverbs have pre-delay? I did not know much about them back in the day. It seemed like there was only different plate settings...and then you just adjusted the amount of wet signal?

* When did Pre-delay get added to reverb units? I assume that the very first reverb units did not have any such adjustment? Did Pre-delays come in the age of Electronic reverbs? Plug in Reverbs? or before.

With plates, live chambers and spring reverbs, you'd run the aux send from the console into a three-head tape machine while it was recording, and plug the output of the tape machine into the reverb unit. The pre-delay was due to the distance between the tape machine's record and repro heads. You could choose different pre-delay times depending on the speeds your tape machine operated at. The pre-delay at 7.5 ips, for example, would be twice as long as the pre-delay at 15 ips.

[RodB]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I would do it with the Voxengo decoder plugin and some bus routing, I think. Without trying it, I'd say, send the raw signal to two busses, no direct output. Put the decoder on one bus- that will be your direct MS-decoded sound. On the 2nd bus, also add a decoder, but hit the Mute Mid button, then add a reverb. Blend to taste. If your DAW lets you route to busses pre-effect, you could do it with just the reverb send.

Thanks - I’ll give it a try.... I’m pretty sure the DAW won’t be the limiting factor

[Edit: The idea of using the mute function in Voxengo worked well thanks; I duplicated the raw signal then used the decoder to mute Mid in one (with reverb plug-in also inserted) and Side in the other. Now able to try different reverb settings just on the side signal 'live']

[runamuck]

Originally Posted by jim1960

The point you're making here is lost on me. Can you clarify, please?

I like his videos but I think he's occasionally hyperbolic.

When in the reverb video he's comparing two, he says one is more emotional and yet it's way higher in the mix than the other that's apparently less emotional for him. So how can he compare an apple to an orange, particularly when he's talking about emotion?

When he says that upon discovering predelay that, I'm paraphrasing here, the heavens opened up, that's pretty hyperbolic based on my experience. It certainly has an effect but I don't find it anywhere near the significance he implies.

Maybe it's just me and others see it as he does.

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

With plates, live chambers and spring reverbs, you'd run the aux send from the console into a three-head tape machine while it was recording, and plug the output of the tape machine into the reverb unit. The pre-delay was due to the distance between the tape machine's record and repro heads. You could choose different pre-delay times depending on the speeds your tape machine operated at. The pre-delay at 7.5 ips, for example, would be twice as long as the pre-delay at 15 ips.

Fun Info Brent. I had an original echoplex, back in the seventies, that operated With moving heads to create delay.

I might assume that Going into the Tape Machine and into the reverb also added Tape saturation as well a pre-delay? Maybe that is why I like those 80's reverb sounds so much.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by runamuck

I like his videos but I think he's occasionally hyperbolic.

When in the reverb video he's comparing two, he says one is more emotional and yet it's way higher in the mix than the other that's apparently less emotional for him. So how can he compare an apple to an orange, particularly when he's talking about emotion?

When he says that upon discovering predelay that, I'm paraphrasing here, the heavens opened up, that's pretty hyperbolic based on my experience. It certainly has an effect but I don't find it anywhere near the significance he implies.

Maybe it's just me and others see it as he does.

Okay, I see your point and there's some validity to it, but trying to describe sounds with words is always problematic so I try to factor that in when someone tries.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

Fun Info Brent. I had an original echoplex, back in the seventies, that operated With moving heads to create delay.

I might assume that Going into the Tape Machine and into the reverb also added Tape saturation as well a pre-delay? Maybe that is why I like those 80's reverb sounds so much.

And then the reverb would get recorded to tape yet again...

[RRuskin]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

...I might assume that Going into the Tape Machine and into the reverb also added Tape saturation as well a pre-delay? Maybe that is why I like those 80's reverb sounds so much.[/INDENT]

By the time the signal comes out of the chamber and added to the stereo mix, the effects of tape saturation would be subtle if at all noticeable.

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by runamuck

I like his videos but I think he's occasionally hyperbolic.

When in the reverb video he's comparing two, he says one is more emotional and yet it's way higher in the mix than the other that's apparently less emotional for him. So how can he compare an apple to an orange, particularly when he's talking about emotion?

When he says that upon discovering predelay that, I'm paraphrasing here, the heavens opened up, that's pretty hyperbolic based on my experience. It certainly has an effect but I don't find it anywhere near the significance he implies.

Maybe it's just me and others see it as he does.

I was flabbergasted that he could tell or remember the differences between all these reverbs. I know it's his job, and I know from my own work that my memory capacity information related to how I made a living seemed to be huge, inexhaustible, so he is probably drawing on that.

I was fascinated by his knowledge. It might be hyperbolic, but... what do I know? To me he was a shaman on top of the mountain.

- Glenn

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

To me he was a shaman on top of the mountain.

There are people in the field who have forgotten more than I'll ever know. That's a good enough reason for me to listen when they talk.