Need some microphone help PLEASE

[GeorgeG]

I’m about half way through my list. Tried so far:

SM57
SM58
SM81
835
AT2035
ATM450

The ATM450 is my new favorite, really enjoying learning how to use this excellent SDC. The most natural and clear so far.

On the way:

KM184
NT5


Still finding:

AT4041
M160
KSM44A
CMC6



George

[rule18]

I've been using the Sennheiser e835 for years. I wound up preferring them over the SM58.

[GeorgeG]

Originally Posted by rule18

I've been using the Sennheiser e835 for years. I wound up preferring them over the SM58.

That’s been my go to mic on several recordings for voice and acoustic guitar but the 421 just dethroned it for vocals and the ATM450 for acoustic guitar.


George

[rule18]

Originally Posted by GeorgeG

That’s been my go to mic on several recordings for voice and acoustic guitar but the 421 just dethroned it for vocals and the ATM450 for acoustic guitar.


George

Hmm.. Can you tell me what's better about them? I'm always interested in upping the game a little.

[GeorgeG]

Originally Posted by rule18

Hmm.. Can you tell me what's better about them? I'm always interested in upping the game a little.

6 decades of playing, less than a year of home studio recording. When I started I went with the std issue recommendation of SM58 for vocals and SM57 for electric and acoustic guitar and an AT2035 LDC based on reviews for value. I also recently tried an SE2200 LDC but didn’t care for it, too sensitive and a little harsh. Dynamics do a good basic job and they are easier to manage. No phantom power, no ambient noise.

I agree with comments here that a microphone closer to the sound you like without any processing is better but I have found that all recording require some processing and different mics “take eq” better than others and I didn’t understand that in the beginning. I passed on the SM81 before I really gave that mic a proper fully processed test. I also learned that condensers pick up more background noise to varying degrees so in my less than optimum “studio” that’s a challenge. Some condensers are better at providing their trademark clarity without revealing the Ac compressor running on the other side of the house. The SE2200 was way too sensitive and the 450 is much better for instance.

When it comes to acoustic I’m looking for less ambient noise, more clarity and a natural bass without any annoying edgy artifacts or boominess. The 835 is brighter but sometimes has some edgy tones and I found it a little boomy when I tried to get the bass side to sound right. I have not tried two mics in stereo yet which will probably help this. Just ordered a second stand. So far the 450 is the most natural across the frequency spectrum, stays smooth and crisp and doesn’t pick up everything in the room. Closest reproduction of my Martin big sound yet. No mud.

On vocals when I moved up to the 421 my recordings were smoother and did not exaggerate the less pleasant aspects of my voice. When I got the track bright enough to sit in the mix it was still smooth. All my mentors who heard my new recordings after that commented on how much better my vocals were. I leaned into the 421 on my last recording for a real intimate proximity fueled phrase and it was so personal and pleasant sounding. On some mics that would have come off sounding like a recording mistake. The most talented guy in my circle told me that this part of the song sold it completely. I don’t like this mic for acoustic guitar. Haven’t tried it on electric yet.


George

[GeorgeG]

A few more comments on vocal recording. There is way more to the ultimate recording result than just the frequency response of a mic. Just like flat cd response is not the same as flat vinyl response. Tubes don’t sound like transistors, etc. there is color, harmonics, etc that are not frequency. A woman with a beautiful silky voice probably sounds better with a revealing accurate detailed mic. When I do that my voice gets less pleasant. Vocal mikes are the most personal to the singer and sometimes you can’t completely describe how they are different good or bad. When I did my first 421 test recording Of my voice I just remember thinking, holy crap I can’t believe that’s me. Don’t know that I can completely explain why. The SE2200 at a similar price point was just annoying to work with and produced an unpleasant response. Could the result have been better in the hands of a proper recording engineer in a quality studio? Probably.


George

[rule18]

Originally Posted by GeorgeG

6 decades of playing, less than a year of home studio recording. When I started I went with the std issue recommendation of SM58 for vocals and SM57 for electric and acoustic guitar and an AT2035 LDC based on reviews for value. I also recently tried an SE2200 LDC but didn’t care for it, too sensitive and a little harsh. Dynamics do a good basic job and they are easier to manage. No phantom power, no ambient noise.

I agree with comments here that a microphone closer to the sound you like without any processing is better but I have found that all recording require some processing and different mics “take eq” better than others and I didn’t understand that in the beginning. I passed on the SM81 before I really gave that mic a proper fully processed test. I also learned that condensers pick up more background noise to varying degrees so in my less than optimum “studio” that’s a challenge. Some condensers are better at providing their trademark clarity without revealing the Ac compressor running on the other side of the house. The SE2200 was way too sensitive and the 450 is much better for instance.

When it comes to acoustic I’m looking for less ambient noise, more clarity and a natural bass without any annoying edgy artifacts or boominess. The 835 is brighter but sometimes has some edgy tones and I found it a little boomy when I tried to get the bass side to sound right. I have not tried two mics in stereo yet which will probably help this. Just ordered a second stand. So far the 450 is the most natural across the frequency spectrum, stays smooth and crisp and doesn’t pick up everything in the room. Closest reproduction of my Martin big sound yet. No mud.

On vocals when I moved up to the 421 my recordings were smoother and did not exaggerate the less pleasant aspects of my voice. When I got the track bright enough to sit in the mix it was still smooth. All my mentors who heard my new recordings after that commented on how much better my vocals were. I leaned into the 421 on my last recording for a real intimate proximity fueled phrase and it was so personal and pleasant sounding. On some mics that would have come off sounding like a recording mistake. The most talented guy in my circle told me that this part of the song sold it completely. I don’t like this mic for acoustic guitar. Haven’t tried it on electric yet.


George

Great info (and write-up)! I think I'll give the 421 some attention. Thanks!

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by GeorgeG

A few more comments on vocal recording. There is way more to the ultimate recording result than just the frequency response of a mic. Just like flat cd response is not the same as flat vinyl response. Tubes don’t sound like transistors, etc. there is color, harmonics, etc that are not frequency. A woman with a beautiful silky voice probably sounds better with a revealing accurate detailed mic. When I do that my voice gets less pleasant. Vocal mikes are the most personal to the singer and sometimes you can’t completely describe how they are different good or bad. When I did my first 421 test recording Of my voice I just remember thinking, holy crap I can’t believe that’s me. Don’t know that I can completely explain why. The SE2200 at a similar price point was just annoying to work with and produced an unpleasant response. Could the result have been better in the hands of a proper recording engineer in a quality studio? Probably.


George

I'm glad the Sennheisser MD-421 is helping you with your preferred vocal tones. The one thing I notice with the 421 is that it has a fairly acute rise in the upper frequencies above about 6 Khz. For some voices this works well. For mine, I tend to want to filter a little of that out, but as you point out, we are all using different voices. The 421 provides nice warmth in the lower frequencies. It's a great example of how good a dynamic mike can sound.

For my own uses, I have found that the built-in pop filter on the 421 is not all that great. You may have found that if you're going to get up close on this that you need an added screen type pop filter. I have a sleeve-type pop filter I put over mine that really helps, and while it probably knocks off some of the high frequencies, that mic has such a high frequency bump in it that I don't even notice.

I'm also glad to hear that you are pleased with the ATM-450 on your guitar. Regarding AC noise, I have learned to turn the AC or heat setting up/down during recording. You almost need a checklist before hitting that red record button. And then when you are done with a take, you need to turn heat/AC settings back where they were or other people in the house might suffer.

It sounds like you are making good progress. I do like to record an acoustic guitar in stereo. I bet you will be pleased with the results, though you will be experimenting for a while before you find the combination of mics that you like best.

- Glenn

[GeorgeG]

Glen

I am also working on a space with better treatment so eventually I might start to like some of the more sensitive condensers as I am able to manage room acoustics better.


George

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by GeorgeG

Glen

I am also working on a space with better treatment so eventually I might start to like some of the more sensitive condensers as I am able to manage room acoustics better.


George

Yes, that helps greatly!

I have a separate room over our garage used as a multi-purpose room, but one of the main purposes is for my studio. It's also my office, where I run my consulting business, my workout space, and a home theater space when I can talk my wife into coming up -- you know, to show her my etchings. She always smiles at that same old line.

That upper room is separate from the house with its own heat, and because we live in such a cool climate, no AC. Of course, I can open windows as needed. We live out in the country at the end of a dead-end road, so it's generally pretty quiet here.

- Glenn

[runamuck]

Originally Posted by GeorgeG

I’m about half way through my list. Tried so far:

SM57
SM58
SM81
835
AT2035
ATM450

The ATM450 is my new favorite, really enjoying learning how to use this excellent SDC. The most natural and clear so far.

On the way:

KM184
NT5


Still finding:

AT4041
M160
KSM44A
CMC6



George

I'll be curious to hear your opinion on how the 450 compares to the 184.

[GeorgeG]

Originally Posted by runamuck

I'll be curious to hear your opinion on how the 450 compares to the 184.

I'm going to evaluate the NT5 and 184 against the 450 as soon as they come in to decide on which mic i'm going to record the current project with so I'll post my findings.

George

[GeorgeG]

Originally Posted by rule18

Great info (and write-up)! I think I'll give the 421 some attention. Thanks!

I an remastering some of my older recordings because my mixing skills are much better now. I just completed an acoustic/vocal number - Blackbird by McCartney. Very naked and revealing . I recorded the vocals with the 835 on this one and as I tried to get the eq sounding better there came that harshness on certain notes. The recording is pretty crisp and forward but you have to take some harshness with that color. The 421 does not do this as much on my voice, it is more "kind" to my voice character. Your mileage of course may vary.


George

[rule18]

Originally Posted by GeorgeG

I an remastering some of my older recordings because my mixing skills are much better now. I just completed an acoustic/vocal number - Blackbird by McCartney. Very naked and revealing . I recorded the vocals with the 835 on this one and as I tried to get the eq sounding better there came that harshness on certain notes. The recording is pretty crisp and forward but you have to take some harshness with that color. The 421 does not do this as much on my voice, it is more "kind" to my voice character. Your mileage of course may vary.


George

Interesting, thanks for that. Funny, I was just playing Blackbird this morning.

[GeorgeG]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Yes, that helps greatly!

I have a separate room over our garage used as a multi-purpose room, but one of the main purposes is for my studio. It's also my office, where I run my consulting business, my workout space, and a home theater space when I can talk my wife into coming up -- you know, to show her my etchings. She always smiles at that same old line.

That upper room is separate from the house with its own heat, and because we live in such a cool climate, no AC. Of course, I can open windows as needed. We live out in the country at the end of a dead-end road, so it's generally pretty quiet here.

- Glenn

I have this mad scientist garage packed with stuff everywhere which provides the best incidental acoustic treatment that I have but I got tired of sweating out there during recording sessions so I moved in the house where I had no such accidental sound treatments. Some effort is required.


George