PSA: Today's (Gretsch) Stupid Deal of the Hour

[Steve DeRosa]

Still available as of this writing - if you want to explore the Gretsch mystique on the cheap (MIC, but uses the same PU's as the Korean E-Matics) here's your chance; makes a nice backup guitar in general, low emotional-investment instrument if you play a lot of outdoor/small-stage/sleazy-bar/high-ding-factor gigs, and at $399 you almost can't afford not to own one:



https://www.musiciansfriend.com/guit...lectric-guitar

[mr. beaumont]

Dangit man, you just cost me $400. And I hate Bigsbys!

[Steve DeRosa]

Use it well, often, and LOUD, Jeff - and IME you might want to set it up with flatwound 11's to start and go up/down from there...

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

Use it well, often, and LOUD, Jeff - and IME you might want to set it up with flatwound 11's to start and go up/down from there...

Lol, it wasn't meant to be. I clicked AFTER 10am, it was gone, I searched for it and it was still on sale, but there was also a two tone model with no Bigsby I liked much more, and then I realized I was just looking at guitars to look at guitars, so I stopped.

What I really need to do is buy a loaded tele body on ebay for this really nice tele neck I have laying around.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Lol, it wasn't meant to be. I clicked AFTER 10am, it was gone, I searched for it and it was still on sale, but there was also a two tone model with no Bigsby I liked much more, and then I realized I was just looking at guitars to look at guitars, so I stopped...

I assume this is the two-tone guitar you're talking about - and if you're looking for some honest-to-Brooklyn Gretsch mojo on the cheap you might want to seriously consider one of these limited-edition, Filter'tron-equipped (same pickups as on the $2500+ Professional Series) beauties:



https://www.musiciansfriend.com/guit...lectric-guitar

Some apocryphal Gretsch lore and trivia: After her divorce from Les Paul in 1963 (I was fortunate enough to see their last TV appearance as a kid, in 1962) Mary Ford was attempting to jumpstart both a solo career and an endorsement deal of her own with Gretsch. It has been rumored that the short-lived (and now uber-rare) "Princess" pastel-colored solidbodies based on the '63 Corvette platform (vaguely resembling the contemporary - and strong-selling - single-pickup SG/Les Paul Junior, and sold with matching white case and amplifier) were in fact intended to be the first "Mary Ford" instruments, to be joined by similarly-colored Duo-Jet-based "Standards" and a double-cutaway White Penguin-based "Custom" model. Production of the Princess ceased by '64 when the deal fell through - no instruments of this type were ever produced under the Mary Ford designation - and while similarly-colored double-cut Duo-Jet "Standard" prototypes are said to exist (possibly as a single example, almost certainly no more than four or five) as well as her personal double-cut Penguin that was to be the platform for the "Custom," only the Corvette-based Princess "Junior" model saw the light of day. FWIW the above FSR Electromatic, in Surf Green with white back/pickguard/trussrod cover and gold Filter'trons/hardware, is probably a 90% accurate representation of what the Mary Ford Standard might have looked like - under Les' tutelage Mary became a formidable guitarist in her own right, and it undoubtedly would have been equipped with some proprietary cutting-edge electronic gadgetry garnered from their time together (which Les himself was extremely reluctant to license for mass production until circa 1970, with the Les Paul Professional/Personal/Triumph Bass models)...

To add some fuel to the fire - and credibility to the story - Ken Achard's History and Development of the American Guitar shows a documented prototype of a double-cutaway Les Paul Standard produced circa 1962 by Epiphone, when they were under Gibson management and using the same methods/materials. As you're well aware Les Paul - who had complained long and loud about the SG version that would bear his name until mid-'63 (when he suspended his endorsement deal amid his divorce proceedings) - performed many of his first experiments with solidbody design on Epiphone guitars, and this may have been an attempt to appease him with a more "modern" appearing instrument while still keeping him in the Kalamazoo corporate camp; suffice it to say that the body shape is nearly indistinguishable from the contemporary double-cutaway Duo-Jet - the same one that would have been used for the Mary Ford Standard/Custom - and if push came to shove it could have been a very interesting state of affairs...

[robj144]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

I assume this is the two-tone guitar you're talking about - and if you're looking for some honest-to-Brooklyn Gretsch mojo on the cheap you might want to seriously consider one of these limited-edition, Filter'tron-equipped (same pickups as on the $2500+ Professional Series) beauties:



https://www.musiciansfriend.com/guit...lectric-guitar

Some apocryphal Gretsch lore and trivia: After her divorce from Les Paul in 1963 (I was fortunate enough to see their last TV appearance as a kid, in 1962) Mary Ford was attempting to jumpstart both a solo career and an endorsement deal of her own with Gretsch. It has been rumored that the short-lived (and now uber-rare) "Princess" pastel-colored solidbodies based on the '63 Corvette platform (vaguely resembling the contemporary - and strong-selling - single-pickup SG/Les Paul Junior, and sold with matching white case and amplifier) were in fact intended to be the first "Mary Ford" instruments, to be joined by similarly-colored Duo-Jet-based "Standards" and a double-cutaway White Penguin-based "Custom" model. Production of the Princess ceased by '64 when the deal fell through - no instruments of this type were ever produced under the Mary Ford designation - and while similarly-colored double-cut Duo-Jet "Standard" prototypes are said to exist (possibly as a single example, almost certainly no more than four or five) as well as her personal double-cut Penguin that was to be the platform for the "Custom," only the Corvette-based Princess "Junior" model saw the light of day. FWIW the above FSR Electromatic, in Surf Green with white back/pickguard/trussrod cover and gold Filter'trons/hardware, is probably a 90% accurate representation of what the Mary Ford Standard might have looked like - under Les' tutelage Mary became a formidable guitarist in her own right, and it undoubtedly would have been equipped with some proprietary cutting-edge electronic gadgetry garnered from their time together (which Les himself was extremely reluctant to license for mass production until circa 1970, with the Les Paul Professional/Personal/Triumph Bass models)...

To add some fuel to the fire - and credibility to the story - Ken Achard's History and Development of the American Guitar shows a documented prototype of a double-cutaway Les Paul Standard produced circa 1962 by Epiphone, when they were under Gibson management and using the same methods/materials. As you're well aware Les Paul - who had complained long and loud about the SG version that would bear his name until mid-'63 (when he suspended his endorsement deal amid his divorce proceedings) - performed many of his first experiments with solidbody design on Epiphone guitars, and this may have been an attempt to appease him with a more "modern" appearing instrument while still keeping him in the Kalamazoo corporate camp; suffice it to say that the body shape is nearly indistinguishable from the contemporary double-cutaway Duo-Jet - the same one that would have been used for the Mary Ford Standard/Custom - and if push came to shove it could have been a very interesting state of affairs...

Thanks. That one is cool but increased $200 since you posted it last.

The guitar in the OP is still $399 on clearance though. I'm thinking about it...

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by robj144

Thanks. That one is cool but increased $200 since you posted it last...

FYI there's a 15% off promo as of this writing - and you'll be the only picker in the neighborhood who owns one...

[robj144]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

FYI there's a 15% off promo as of this writing - and you'll be the only picker in the neighborhood who owns one...

Thanks. There is actually a 20% code too. Which do you think has better pickups with the Gretsch twang thing? The one in the OP or the FSR?

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by robj144

...Which do you think has better pickups with the Gretsch twang thing? The one in the OP or the FSR?

As I've stated in other threads there are many different flavors of "That Great Gretsch Sound," depending on which pickups are matched to which body design - listen carefully to George Harrison's work from the pre-Rubber Soul period and you'll be able to distinguish three totally different combinations (Dynasonic/Duo-Jet solidbody, patent# Filter'tron/17" Country Gent, Hi-lo'Tron 16" Tennesseean); FYI within the original (1958-1980) Filter'tron line alone there are at least four distinct variations (PAF, patent#, Baldwin blacktop, Kustom blacktop) - among which you'll find the usual differences between production lots/individual pickups - so using strictly my own experiences, with instruments I've personally owned/played (YMMV), I'll offer some very general guidelines...

First off, I have a 2013 MIJ White Falcon with the same reissue patent# Filter-trons as in the FSR; if you like a brighter, crisper tone - one that complements a tweed Fender or pre-Top Boost Vox with its darker overall voicing and "saggy" response - or you want to lend some chime to a 15" tube combo like the Fender Excelsior or Peavey Delta Blues, this is your pickup. By the same token, with a post-1960's amp (blackface Fender, Vox Top-Boost AC, Marshall, etc.) you'll likely achieve a "hot Fender" response: strong upper-mids and treble with just enough midrange to keep things from getting glassy; if you need your rhythm lines to cut through without resorting to excess volume, a pair of these in a solidbody through a blackface Deluxe/Twin should be just the ticket (just turn off the Bright switch, and again speaking as an owner I'd avoid a Super Reverb - there's no hollowbody resonance and "wood" to tame the highs)...

On the other hand the current blacktop Filter'trons are based on an early-'70s Baldwin design, intended to partner with the "Midnight Special" era amps (silverface Fender; Marshall; early high-power solid-state rigs - Kustom, Acoustic, "orange-stripe" Randall, etc.) in tandem with the first generation of stompboxes; as such you'll find more upper-mid crunch than high treble, almost like an underwound P-90 in many respects, and while the Gretsch "chime" is still there (it's OK to kick in the Bright switch - or plug into that pre-master volume silverface Super Reverb) it's a typically smoother response - if you've got a high-gain amp you'll get a nice "woman tone" from the neck pickup, with none of the muddiness of a Gibson-type humbucker...

Using my mildly-modded Bugera V22/V5 I typically set the former to the triode (15W) position with the White Falcon for a sweet late-'50s tone (think Dynasonic-era Chet with a bit of Brian Setzer thrown in), while the Super Hi-lo'Tron 5622 (FYI my favorite new-generation Gretsch pickup, based on a modified reissue blacktop Filter'tron rather than the historic Brooklyn single-coil Hi-lo used in the '60 reissue Double Annie) responds better with the '60s-style 22W pentode setting; similarly, while the 5622 can sound a bit dark with some pickup/tone settings through the V5 the Falcon sings like Pavarotti's parakeet: sweet, clear, and surprisingly rich through the upgrade Eminence 820H 8" hemp-cone speaker (the 17" full-hollow body goes a long way in that department as well - an advantage you may not have with a solid) - and as long as I keep the preamp gain in check it's a plug-&-play proposition. At the risk of confusing you further I've also A/B'd both guitars through my Randall RB-120 1x15" combo (a "Midnight Special" era two-independent-channel bass/guitar rig, and one of the first solid-state amps with any real tone) and, contrary to expectation, the Falcon struts its '50s jazzbox roots like a proud peacock - I need to roll off the bass to achieve a balanced tone with this one - with mids and trebles reminiscent of an old DeArmond 1100 "monkey-on-a-stick" archtop pickup...

Bottom line: only you know the tone you're hearing in your head, and since each of us differs in our senses of hearing/touch as well as playing style one man's meat is another man's poison; I've played several hundred Gretsch instruments over my lifetime, for the type of playing my band does I know which one I would choose at this moment in time - and that's precisely why I'll decline to make a specific recommendation, and simply say follow your best judgment...

[robj144]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

As I've stated in other threads there are many different flavors of "That Great Gretsch Sound," depending on which pickups are matched to which body design - listen carefully to George Harrison's work from the pre-Rubber Soul period and you'll be able to distinguish three totally different combinations (Dynasonic/Duo-Jet solidbody, patent# Filter'tron/17" Country Gent, Hi-lo'Tron 16" Tennesseean); FYI within the original (1958-1980) Filter'tron line alone there are at least four distinct variations (PAF, patent#, Baldwin blacktop, Kustom blacktop) - among which you'll find the usual differences between production lots/individual pickups - so using strictly my own experiences, with instruments I've personally owned/played (YMMV), I'll offer some very general guidelines...

First off, I have a 2013 MIJ White Falcon with the same reissue patent# Filter-trons as in the FSR; if you like a brighter, crisper tone - one that complements a tweed Fender or pre-Top Boost Vox with its darker overall voicing and "saggy" response - or you want to lend some chime to a 15" tube combo like the Fender Excelsior or Peavey Delta Blues, this is your pickup. By the same token, with a post-1960's amp (blackface Fender, Vox Top-Boost AC, Marshall, etc.) you'll likely achieve a "hot Fender" response: strong upper-mids and treble with just enough midrange to keep things from getting glassy; if you need your rhythm lines to cut through without resorting to excess volume, a pair of these in a solidbody through a blackface Deluxe/Twin should be just the ticket (just turn off the Bright switch, and again speaking as an owner I'd avoid a Super Reverb - there's no hollowbody resonance and "wood" to tame the highs)...

On the other hand the current blacktop Filter'trons are based on an early-'70s Baldwin design, intended to partner with the "Midnight Special" era amps (silverface Fender; Marshall; early high-power solid-state rigs - Kustom, Acoustic, "orange-stripe" Randall, etc.) in tandem with the first generation of stompboxes; as such you'll find more upper-mid crunch than high treble, almost like an underwound P-90 in many respects, and while the Gretsch "chime" is still there (it's OK to kick in the Bright switch - or plug into that pre-master volume silverface Super Reverb) it's a typically smoother response - if you've got a high-gain amp you'll get a nice "woman tone" from the neck pickup, with none of the muddiness of a Gibson-type humbucker...

Using my mildly-modded Bugera V22/V5 I typically set the former to the triode (15W) position with the White Falcon for a sweet late-'50s tone (think Dynasonic-era Chet with a bit of Brian Setzer thrown in), while the Super Hi-lo'Tron 5622 (FYI my favorite new-generation Gretsch pickup, based on a modified reissue blacktop Filter'tron rather than the historic Brooklyn single-coil Hi-lo used in the '60 reissue Double Annie) responds better with the '60s-style 22W pentode setting; similarly, while the 5622 can sound a bit dark with some pickup/tone settings through the V5 the Falcon sings like Pavarotti's parakeet: sweet, clear, and surprisingly rich through the upgrade Eminence 820H 8" hemp-cone speaker (the 17" full-hollow body goes a long way in that department as well - an advantage you may not have with a solid) - and as long as I keep the preamp gain in check it's a plug-&-play proposition. At the risk of confusing you further I've also A/B'd both guitars through my Randall RB-120 1x15" combo (a "Midnight Special" era two-independent-channel bass/guitar rig, and one of the first solid-state amps with any real tone) and, contrary to expectation, the Falcon struts its '50s jazzbox roots like a proud peacock - I need to roll off the bass to achieve a balanced tone with this one - with mids and trebles reminiscent of an old DeArmond 1100 "monkey-on-a-stick" archtop pickup...

Bottom line: only you know the tone you're hearing in your head, and since each of us differs in our senses of hearing/touch as well as playing style one man's meat is another man's poison; I've played several hundred Gretsch instruments over my lifetime, for the type of playing my band does I know which one I would choose at this moment in time - and that's precisely why I'll decline to make a specific recommendation, and simply say follow your best judgment...

Thanks for the detailed info. I'll think about it. I don't really need a new guitar, but maybe.