|
|
#1
01-19-2022, 06:13 AM
|
|||
|
|||
Is the J45 really a dreadnought?
We’re accustomed to referring to J45s (and the extended family) as slope shouldered dreadnoughts, but are they really dreadnoughts? Aren’t they Jumbos? I’ve played D18/D28s and when I play a J45/J35/J29/southern jumbo etc, they feel as different as when I play an OM/00 etc. If it’s only related to the 16” lower bout, then why aren’t Grand Auditoriums called something like “narrow waisted dreadnoughts”.
Edit: I’m not literally asking about the “J” designation in J45. Its well know that (1) Gibson has made some really daft naming decisions (2) Lumping J45s (J45 as the generic term for the SSD type/class of guitar, not the actual J45) in with dreadnoughts has clear historical roots. I’m more making a philosophical naval gazing comment about whether, with the benefit of hindsight, it is fair that the J45 (see 2 above) not be recognised as its own thing. Are all J45s dreadnoughts, but all dreadnoughts aren’t J45s? Last edited by Jimmy Recard; 01-19-2022 at 08:34 AM. 
|
|
#3
01-19-2022, 06:26 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Yeah, technically jumbos. I think the term "slope shoulder dreadnaught" really reflects how influential Martin's nomenclature became. It's trying to shoehorn Gibson body sizes into Martin naming conventions.
__________________
"What have I learned but the proper use for several tools" -Gary Snyder Bourgeois DR-A / Bowerman "Working Man's" OM / Martin Custom D-18 (adi & flame) / Martin OM-21 / Northwood M70 MJ / 1970s Sigma DR-7 / Eastman E6D / Flatiron Signature A5 / Silverangel Econo A (Call me Dan)
|
|
#5
01-19-2022, 06:28 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Dreadnought is a term that Martin came up with. Jumbo is a term that Gibson came up with. They have both been copied extensively. The best reference is a tape measure.
|
|
#6
01-19-2022, 06:33 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
|
#8
01-19-2022, 07:30 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I do not get what the mystery is. In 1934 when Gibson figured it was time to go toe to with Martin they designated their first guitar with a 16" lower bout the Jumbo. In 1935 they came out with the short-lived Trojan (possibly so named as to not confuse it with the Jumbo which was still in production) which in 1936 was transformed into the J35 while they added the Advanced Jumbo to the lineup. Martin did their own thing and Gibson did theirs. If there is a Gibson mystery it is what did the "L" series designation stand for.
__________________
"You start off playing guitars to get girls & end up talking with middle-aged men about your fingernails" - Ed Gerhard Last edited by zombywoof; 01-19-2022 at 07:38 AM.
|
|
#9
01-19-2022, 07:34 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Is the J45 really a dreadnought?
Quote:
Of course the 'J' is for Jumbo. It refers to the large lower bout, and the rest of the descriptive nomenclature makes it clear it's not shaped exactly like a "Jumbo" shape. Speaking of which, the Taylor Grand Auditorium shape is actually pretty close to a smaller Jumbo shape. Which shape is defined from the original Jumbo, the Gibson J-200, as the pattern from which all "Jumboes" derive their shape. I believe many of the 'J' series have one thing in common, the large lower bouts, but not necessarily the overall shape of the original Jumbo. Which was designed from sketches by Ray Whitley, a country singer who co-wrote the Gene Autry hit song "Back In The Saddle Again". He brought the design to Gibson so they could make him the guitar. That original Jumbo is in the Country Music Hall of Fame, and has Whitley's name inscribed on the headstock. So "Jumbo" or "J" for guitars can refer to a model, a size, and/or a shape, and not necessarily all on the same guitar model. For all confusion and repetition on model numbering and descriptions, simply blame the associated marketing departments. Don .
__________________
*The Heard: 85 Gibson J-200 sitka/rosewood Jumbo 99 Taylor 355 sitka/sapele 12 string Jmbo 06 Alvarez AJ60S englmn/mpl lam med Jmbo 14 Taylor 818e sitka/rosewood Grand Orchestra 05 Taylor 512ce L10 all mahogany Grand Concert 09 Taylor all walnut Jmbo 16 Taylor 412e-R sitka/rw GC 16 Taylor 458e-R s/rw 12 string GO 21 Epiphone IBG J-200 sitka/maple Jmbo 22 Guild F-1512 s/rw 12 string Jmbo Last edited by donlyn; 01-19-2022 at 07:45 AM.
|
|
#11
01-19-2022, 07:39 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Don .
__________________
*The Heard: 85 Gibson J-200 sitka/rosewood Jumbo 99 Taylor 355 sitka/sapele 12 string Jmbo 06 Alvarez AJ60S englmn/mpl lam med Jmbo 14 Taylor 818e sitka/rosewood Grand Orchestra 05 Taylor 512ce L10 all mahogany Grand Concert 09 Taylor all walnut Jmbo 16 Taylor 412e-R sitka/rw GC 16 Taylor 458e-R s/rw 12 string GO 21 Epiphone IBG J-200 sitka/maple Jmbo 22 Guild F-1512 s/rw 12 string Jmbo
|
|
#12
01-19-2022, 08:38 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
|
#13
01-19-2022, 08:56 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
If you are going to get picky about the word dreadnaught then shouldn't they be 12 frets like the first dreadnaughts?
__________________
Waterloo WL-S, K & K mini Waterloo WL-S Deluxe, K & K mini Iris OG, 12 fret, slot head, K & K mini Follow The Yellow Brick Road
|
|
#14
01-19-2022, 08:58 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I have no problem with referring to it as a dreadnought since the "J" was just that initial designation given to Gibson's response to the Martin dreadnought. I find it that, modern Jumbos are vastly different in appearance and measurement than the J45 and it is much more typical of the dreadnought shape.
__________________
Breedlove Masterclass Dread - Sitka/Koa Breedlove Masterclass Concert - Sitka/BRW Seagull Artist Deluxe CE Seagull Artist Element Furch G22CR-C Several other exceptional guitars, but these make me smile and keep me inspired!
|
|
#15
01-19-2022, 09:00 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Stand back! Here comes a hand grenade.
Are Yamaha FGs dreadnought guitars? The FG standing for Folk Guitar. 
__________________
I'm learning to flatpick and fingerpick guitar to accompany songs. I've played and studied traditional noter/drone mountain dulcimer for many years. And I used to play dobro in a bluegrass band.
|
