How much should I push back?

[stormin1155]

Originally Posted by L20A

At what price point would you feel OK with installing the pickup?
A $500.00 guitar, a $1000.00?

This is a nice guitar but will still be a nice guitar when the work is done.
Yes it will most likely devalue it but so what. It is his guitar and he wants the pickup.
You have tried to talk him out of doing it and he still wants it done.
Time to install it.

Good question. The point I think is OK for that particular system is going to be different than what others think. My customer thinks it's OK to put it in a $4,000+ guitar.

I've put that pickup in two of my guitars. One is a $300 Recording King that I have as a loaner if a customer needs a guitar while I'm working on his. The other is in a Guild GAD25, a $600 guitar that I play quite a bit. I doubt that I'd put it in anything much more expensive than that.

To say that a barndoor system de-values a high-end guitar is probably not as accurate as saying it severely limits the market for resale. If someone happens to be in the market for a D-41 12-string with a Fishman Presys 301, it probably wouldn't hurt the value at all. But most people who have $4,000 jingling in their pocket looking for a D-41 12-string would be horrified at the thought of cutting a hole in the side to install a pre-amp, and wouldn't even consider it.

[fuman]

You're a good man. Don't let him do it.

[51 Relic]

Perhaps if you recommend that he contacts Martin for their opinion on his intentions he might change his mind .

[Silly Moustache]

I totally respect and support your feelings about this.

You are a craftsman and your respect for the instruments that you work on indicates professional integrity.

a) Whilst you are in business to make money rather than just work on guitars you have a right to decide what you do.

b) If you do do what he asks, it may reflect on your professional reputation (he did what?) that could come back to bite you.

Relevant court case in the news recently. Cake makers refused to make a cake on which the customer wanted a statement on it that they found objectionable. (The statement is irrelevant, so I'll omit details).

Customer took them to court - which found for the cake company saying that they had the right to refuse customer orders that they didn't want to do.

That is my opinion in this matter.

[Song]

Originally Posted by stormin1155

Response from OP after reading 50+ posts:


Thank you all for your responses, advice, and perspectives. So far the yea's are leading the nays by a small margin... I still haven't made a decision, but here are a few more comments:

The customer is a 75-year-old retired pastor. He and his wife do a lot of concerts at churches, senior centers, nursing homes, and the like. So he is semi-pro, playing mostly country and gospel music (mostly cowboy chords).

I consider him a friend, and am not concerned that he will get pissed at me and I will lose him as a customer. He respects my opinion and expertise.

I am not concerned about the money I would make (or not make). I am concerned that he is making a decision that is not in HIS best interest, and I am concerned that it will reflect poorly on me.

My plan is to work on him some more to come up with a better solution. If he insists he wants the Fishman... well, I still haven't made that decision.

Thank you all for your input.

Obviously that PU system works for him as it does for 10s of 1000s of other players who have that type of system.
It may seem unsightly to some (not to me), but it is ergonomic and is a good system.
Obviously this man is not a raving lunatic and possibly a friend so I would respect his wishes.
Regarding your reputation I would be more concerned with offense of a customer than some guitar idolater seeing it at church or nursing home.

What matters is that it will make it sound great, be easy to tune (twice as important to a 12 string slinger),
easy to change battery, easy to EQ and blend, etc.
These are the types of things performers care about.

In my opinion it doesn't look any weirder than a soundhole PU.

[Goodallboy]

Originally Posted by stormin1155

Response from OP after reading 50+ posts:


Thank you all for your responses, advice, and perspectives. So far the yea's are leading the nays by a small margin... I still haven't made a decision, but here are a few more comments:

The customer is a 75-year-old retired pastor. He and his wife do a lot of concerts at churches, senior centers, nursing homes, and the like. So he is semi-pro, playing mostly country and gospel music (mostly cowboy chords).

I consider him a friend, and am not concerned that he will get pissed at me and I will lose him as a customer. He respects my opinion and expertise.

I am not concerned about the money I would make (or not make). I am concerned that he is making a decision that is not in HIS best interest, and I am concerned that it will reflect poorly on me.

My plan is to work on him some more to come up with a better solution. If he insists he wants the Fishman... well, I still haven't made that decision.

Thank you all for your input.

You’re honestly surprised that the take the money and run responses outnumber the ones impressed with your professional reputation and credibility?

You shouldn’t be.

[robj144]

I don't quite understand. I understand your objections, but it's his guitar. He can do whatever he wants to it. There's a good chance he never sells it anyhow.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by stormin1155

Good question. The point I think is OK for that particular system is going to be different than what others think. My customer thinks it's OK to put it in a $4,000+ guitar.

Hi s1155

Phil Keaggy has a Baggs smaller than barn door preamp in the side of his Olson guitars. So does Tommy Emmanuel (his is from Maton, but it's in the side).

It takes at least 40 positive reviews to outweigh one negative one on Amazon and other sites. It's the same in real life. One person with a bad experience usually tells between 15-20 others about that experience.

The ratio I was taught by a marketer at a seminar was 1-11-22. One person with a bad encounter tells 11 people who each tell 22 more.

Either you are a business-man who is a guitar tech who is there to do work for ALL customers, or you are not.
…If I go to a shop with a $15,000 guitar and ask for a pickup, or other alteration, I expect the luthier or tech to do it for me. They can present a case against (or for) it and I'm still going to expect the work to be done. They can refuse the work and I'll not be back…ever.

If they refuse, I'll let my friends now about the refusal to do work I asked for.

[JonHBone]

Originally Posted by Goodallboy

You’re honestly surprised that the take the money and run responses outnumber the ones impressed with your professional reputation and credibility?

You shouldn’t be.

"Take the money and run" is a disingenuous or really naive way to paraphrase it. I'm not sure which.

[SoCalSurf]

The customer is 75 years old and retired, thus probably not interested in resale value. He wants what he wants. He also trusts you and heard what you have told him. Despite your objections, he has a right to make his own decision. Sending him to someone else to do the job because you have a right not to do it doesn't seem like the appropriate thing to do.

[stormin1155]

I wish this forum had "Like" buttons, but since it doesn't, LIKES TO YOU ALL! You have given me good feedback. Regardless what I end up doing, I will feel better about my decision because you have given me different perspectives on both sides.

[Basalt Beach]

At the request of the OP, this thread is closed.