help finding a classical

[xzacx]

First off, I apologize if these questions have been asked 100 times, and feel free to give links where I can get this info, but I wasn't able to find what I was looking for through searching.

Anyway, I'm looking for my first nylon string. I've been playing electric/steel strings for 25+ years, and want to start something new. The main guitars I currently play are a Jackson RR1T, Gibson R7, and a Taylor 714 (tuned to B standard hahah). I'm worried that I won't end up spending a ton of time with a nylon string, so I don't want to spend a fortune, but I want something that's nice enough I won't be looking for a new one in a few months if I do enjoy it. I'm thinking something in the $1,000-2,000 range in terms of budget. Is it even possible to get something quality in that range? The lower the better, but I do want something that sounds and plays great.

Other than the steel string makers who also make nylons, I'm not very familiar with brands I should be looking at. There's a local spot who sells pretty high end stuff and carries a brand called German Vazquez Rubio. This is really the only thing I know to checkout locally, but I think that may be a little out of my price range (unless I heard a compelling argument for it).

Here are the things on my wish list. All solid woods. Tone-wise, I prefer darker sounds. I'd like it to be semi-falilliar for an electric player. I'm OK with a 2-inch neck (would possibly prefer thinner but I have giant hands so I think I could adapt), but I'd prefer it didn't have super high action. I'd like it to be by a reputable brand which I could sell easily if I don't end up enjoying to play it. Used is preferable, because I plan on playing it and don't want to have to worry about keeping it in absolute pristine condition. No need for electronics, but isn't a deal breaker if it has them.

Basically I'm asking what I should be looking for. Any help is very much appreciated!

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by xzacx

First off, I apologize if these questions have been asked 100 times, and feel free to give links where I can get this info, but I wasn't able to find what I was looking for through searching.

Anyway, I'm looking for my first nylon string. I've been playing electric/steel strings for 25+ years, and want to start something new. The main guitars I currently play are a Jackson RR1T, Gibson R7, and a Taylor 714 (tuned to B standard hahah). I'm worried that I won't end up spending a ton of time with a nylon string, so I don't want to spend a fortune, but I want something that's nice enough I won't be looking for a new one in a few months if I do enjoy it. I'm thinking something in the $1,000-2,000 range in terms of budget. Is it even possible to get something quality in that range? The lower the better, but I do want something that sounds and plays great.

Other than the steel string makers who also make nylons, I'm not very familiar with brands I should be looking at. There's a local spot who sells pretty high end stuff and carries a brand called German Vazquez Rubio. This is really the only thing I know to checkout locally, but I think that may be a little out of my price range (unless I heard a compelling argument for it).

Here are the things on my wish list. All solid woods. Tone-wise, I prefer darker sounds. I'd like it to be semi-falilliar for an electric player. I'm OK with a 2-inch neck (would possibly prefer thinner but I have giant hands so I think I could adapt), but I'd prefer it didn't have super high action. I'd like it to be by a reputable brand which I could sell easily if I don't end up enjoying to play it. Used is preferable, because I plan on playing it and don't want to have to worry about keeping it in absolute pristine condition.

Basically I'm asking what I should be looking for. Any help is very much appreciated!

There are other options, but I'd check out Rodriguez guitars. I was first introduced to their guitars in the mid-late 90's, and owned 2 myself before getting into hand made instruments and switching most of my efforts to building and repair. I even did some fretwork advisory work with my friend and former boss, John LaRocque, at their factory outside Madrid, Spain. Good value for money.

[GolfSteve]

The Cordoba C9 and C10 sound pretty good whenever I try them out at the store and they are in your price range. They come from the factory with high tension strings, so might sound different if you switch to lower tension. A cedar topped C10 that I tried out a few months ago had a wonderful dark resonant sound that I loved and had excellent playability.

I'd say, though, that nylon guitars exhibit much more variability in sound quality than steel strings do. If there are three or four of the same make/model on the wall at the shop, one might stand out as better or worse.

I've also found that string choice makes a bigger impact on nylon guitar sound than it does on streel string acoustics. Some strings are warm, some are bright (Savarez carbon), some have a metallic twang (D'addario titanyl), some excel at base (Hannabach), some are plastic sounding.

I've tried a number of $350 guitars that sounded great and lots of $350 guitars that were unremarkable. Most $1000 guitars are reasonable quality, and you just need to try them all and pick the one that you like. Some are better in the base range and others are better in the trebles...and the best are good at both.

And I've tried a few $4000 guitars that were below average and a few luthier made guitars that were exceptional.

ps. I play 100% acoustic, so if you amplify or record using pickups you might want different advice...e.g. I don't like the Taylor Nylon guitars because they don't resonate/sing to me as an acoustic guitar, but they might sound great when amplified. Same thing with the Yamaha NTX cross-over guitars.

pps. As far as action and neck width and playability...for nylon string you need much higher action at the 12th fret than a steel string to avoid buzz....but you will want to ensure action at the nut is kept low.

Some guitars will feel much more responsive to your right hand than others; I'm not sure why that is, but it is occasionally quite noticeable. I have a light touch, so like a responsive guitar.

If you want to play in the classical/fingerstyle fashion, you might come around to enjoying the 53 mm neck width as it gives your right hand more room to work with free/rest strokes, and gives your left hand fingers a bit more room for error when doing those long stretches.

[Dave T]

I recommend Alhambra as a classical maker. They have a number of choices in the price range you are talking about and they are made in Spain, the home of the Spanish/classical guitar. Their construction and playability has been very consistent on the ones I've examined and particularly the one I own, a 7P with a spruce top and IRW back and sides.

Dave

[Noonesperfect]

All classical guitars are nylon string, but not all nylon strings are classicals. You can get a nice crossover guitar that has a narrower fretboard and has a slight radius (as opposed to the flat fretboard a classical would have). That way, you have a guitar that is closer to what you are used to as far as playability, but with the nylon sound - maybe the best of both worlds for you.

[xzacx]

Thanks for everyone's advice so far. It sucks that there isn't a local place I could try a variety of things out. With electrics, I have no problem buying a USA-made Jackson sight unseen. I know I can get it to play how I like, and worse-case scenario, a pickup swap an amp tweak will have it sounding how I like. But as I'm sure you all agree, it's no so easy with acoustics.

As far as "crossovers" go, would you be losing anything in terms of tone, for what you gain in familiarity? I don't have any use for electronics, so the more familiar neck would be the only possible benefit I see. I'm not opposed to that, but it's not essential.

I'm totally fine with going with something used. I actually prefer that. Again though, I'm just not familiar enough with makers to know what I should be looking for in terms of price. For example, could something with quality tone and playability be found in the $1,000 range? I'm willing to spend more, but don't want to overspend.

[Rondoraymundo]

I LOVE my C10. It's one of the best classical guitars I have ever played. The interesting thing for me about it is that it is made by real luthiers and is all wood. Try one. You'll be amazed at the bass response and the piano like trebles.

I shopped around 6 months ago looking for a guitar in the same price range. Tried them all and ended up with my C10.

I have really nice Martins. I haven't picked one up in six months now.

[Ziggy925]

This is an interesting thread because I'm trying to figure out exactly what you are looking for. This sounds crazy, but have you considered the magic of Roland synths? You will get the playability you want and it can sound like anything you want. Yeah, I know. It's crazy.

[rogthefrog]

I tried a bunch from $300 to $3000 a couple years ago. I kept coming back to the solid wood Cordobas (C9 and up). Very consistent (I tried a bunch) and better sounding than the Kremona, Ramirez and Yamahas I tried at the same price point.

[Ceabeceabe]

Originally Posted by xzacx

As far as "crossovers" go, would you be losing anything in terms of tone, for what you gain in familiarity? I don't have any use for electronics, so the more familiar neck would be the only possible benefit I see. I'm not opposed to that, but it's not essential.

I'm totally fine with going with something used. I actually prefer that. Again though, I'm just not familiar enough with makers to know what I should be looking for in terms of price. For example, could something with quality tone and playability be found in the $1,000 range? I'm willing to spend more, but don't want to overspend.

Educating yourself about classical guitars can take some time and a fair amount of experimentation with actual guitars to figure out what you really want / need; at least it did me.

The term crossover is a bit amorphous, and you need to figure out what a particular maker means when they say "crossover." A Taylor crossover is nothing like a Cervantes crossover. Taylor does not feel like a classical or sound like one, at least not unplugged. Cervantes crossovers are more traditional in sound...but have interesting build characteristics.

You can get a nice used guitar in the $ 1,000.00 range, especially if you are willing to put up with some discoloration on the back, a scratch or two,, or maybe even a string gouge.

For used, check out on line GCenter - you may be able to spot a deal, and they at least have a 30 day return policy.

You should also take a look at this Forum's for sale section - maybe even post a want to buy add there.

But also take a look at delcamp classical guitar forum and their for sale section. That forum caters specifically to classical guitars. Right now there are several used guitars in your price range.

In terms of a more C shaped neck, and more modern approach, check out Kenny Hill New World Player guitars. (I own one of these in spruce that I bought new).

Cervantes makes one or two crossovers that people really seem to like. But you should also check out the Rodriguez and the Hauser models. I almost bought a used Rodriguez model for about $ 800...

In terms of a more traditional feel and approach, try Ramirez. (I own a used 4E in cedar.) Ramirez has a bit thicker D shaped neck. New they are expensive but used they are reasonably priced. Saw a used 4E a while back for about $ 1000, which was a very good price.

Also consider Esteves (up to Model 8), or the higher up Manuel Adalid (Model 9s and up). These are very nice guitars for the current price. But be aware that prices fluctuate quite a bit depending on when the guitars were built. More recent guitars cost quite a bit less than older (ie guitar built in the 1990s, early 2000s maybe). This line has a bit larger body in the Spanish style, but a neck that is on the normal rather than thicker profile.

I considered Cordoba's C9 but opted for other makers. The C9s can be purchased used for under $ 1,000.00

I owned a Kremona Fiesta but after about two years started to out play it - seemed to reach a limit in terms of sound range and dynamics that could be pulled out of it.

Other less well know but quality makers include Almansa (ie 457) and Juan Hernandez Professor.

Good luck, have fun !!

[Tony Burns]

Lucida 666 concerto -

[camer138]

If you want to ease into wider spacing slowly I loved my La Patrie Collection as my first nylon. was an electric guitar player for 10 years and it made the transition very easy. decent sounding guitars too.

If you want to jump right into proper classical guitar spacing I'd look elsewhere though